Friday, December 22, 2006

A Proliferation of the Devices

Encinitas panel OKs Leucadia Boulevard improvements

The Encinitas Planning Commission voted 5-0 Thursday to approve the first phase of Leucadia Boulevard improvements that call for sidewalks, bike lanes, landscaping three roundabouts.

Some peeps spoke out against the roundabouts, others in support.

Personally I can hang with the roundabouts, I support them.

But, I think three might be one too many roundabouts for Leucadia Blvd, two roundabouts might be better. I think the Hygeia stop sign should be replaced by a roundabout in Phase I of the plan instead of Phase II.

This quote in the NCT.com story caught my attention, some speakers said, local motorists just don't understand how to navigate them.

Resident Frank Scarborough said he avoids Santa Fe Drive because of the roundabout and, as a result, does some of his shopping in Carlsbad.


That doesn't make any sense to me. If he avoids going to Vons on Santa Fe Dr because of the roundabout then it would be easier to go to Albertson's on Encinitas Blvd or any of the El Camino Real stores than drive all the way to Carlsbad. Or, he could zip down to the Seaside Market in Cardiff. (Pick up a nice bottle of wine and some flowers for the Mrs while you are there).

*Tip of the day, go to the Encinitas Blvd Smart & Final, that place is always mellow.

And, comon', the Santa Fe roundabout is easy as pie (unless you are driving a semi-truck). The Leucadia roundabouts will be way more chaotic for sure, but I think people will get used to them.

I'm hoping that once the I-5 hoppers realize they hate the roundabouts they will avoid Leucadia Blvd all together in the morning.

Blair Knoll, a city engineer, told commissioners that pedestrian and vehicular safety were driving the project, for which $1.2 million has been budgeted to complete the first phase.

In addition to roundabouts, landscaped medians appear on plans.

The medians, as well as landscaped, meandering walkways, would provide safe havens for pedestrians who today must cross a boulevard that is up to 50 feet wide, Knoll said.


What will be nice is linking the golf course area trails and east Leucadia Blvd with sidewalks on west Leucadia Blvd. Now, the key is to keep a pedestrian crossing at HWY101 and Leucadia Blvd (if they decide to close the intersection as Jerome Stock's plan calls for). Then pedestrians could walk from Neptune and Beacon's beach all the way to the Ecke Ranch trails and back. That would be sweet.

75 comments:

  1. Only the hobbiest walkers are going to make the walk to the golf course. On rare occasion! Walking along arterials is not enjoyable.

    It is not like now that we have roundabouts that all the couch potatoes are going to throw their TVs in the dumpster and put on $200 walking shoes to walk circles around the town.

    People are going to get in the car and park by the golf course if they want to walk around the course.

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  2. It is a big mistake to make the hygia roundabout go in Phase II. Travel will only be more disturbing and less smooth with the stop sign AND two roundies. Swapping the stop with a roundie at least gives the potential of increasing the flow of traffic.

    I'll bet all this slowing causes more cut through traffic, which is a consequence of the main arteries getting "calmed." All that cut through traffic will make walking the back streets less enjoyable, and that is where people want to walk anyways!

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  3. Why is all this necessary? Too much traffic? What causes too much traffic? And who is paying for all this work? Any wonder why people are against increasing residential densities and going to three stories.

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  4. So the "hobbiest walkers" should be barred from quality of life? Only the SUV drivers count in this world?

    Have you ever seen Neptune on a weekend? It's like a track meet. Talk your dog for a walk you fat, lazy slobs. Hell, include a dog park along the way, like on the Barrelman property. You know, the one that was supposed to be a park in the first place?

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  5. If you don't want sidewalks then I want my property tax money back.

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  6. If you can't negotiate a roundabout you should turn in your driver's license. The santa fe round about is easy to negotiate and is pleasant to look at. The street improvements were excellent and I commend the city on it. The roundabout did not reduce speed on Santa Fe or cut through traffic.

    If there was another round about at Santa Fe and Summit it might dissuade peole from driving on Santa Fe and slow traffic down.

    I don't understand the walking controversy. If you walk you walk if you don't you won't regardless of sidewalks. Main streets should have walking paths and bike lanes. Residential streets should be left up to the homeowners to decide.

    Cut through communter traffic should be eliminated. That can be done by prohibiting turns during peak periods. Solana Beach as done this quite successfully. We have to get our sheriff's deputies out of Starbucks and doing enforcement but that is another issue.

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  7. Since it is still 2006 I am assuming the RSPB is still being nice. So, if that is the case, I will give you a free guilt book when I am finished. Also, J.P.=great title for it. I hope the publishers like it. Can we actualy use it?

    On another note, I like the Santa Fe roundabout. It's kind of fun and not a hassle at all. I shop at the Vons on Santa Fe and have had no trouble manuvering my Camero around it. I had more trouble before, as I almost got hit by a Barratt truck on several occasions. I think if people will give them a chance, they might find them, not only traffic calming, interesting to drive on, but you will still get to where you are going in the same time-unless you are a semi.

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  8. Dr. Lorri, Why does everyone say that semis can't use the roundabout. I see semis use the Santa Fe one with no problems. Your photo of the semi having trouble with the roundabout is misleading as it was taken during construction when the road was about 1 foot lower than the center area trucks are suppose to use for their back tires. After the road was paved the trucks have no problem. I'm glad the City chose the roundabout instead of an ugly traffic signal that increases speed.

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  9. Dr. Lorri drives a Camero?!?

    Please tell me that RSB drives a Trans Am, that would be true love.

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  10. Cut through traffic is the symptom not THE problem.

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  11. Leucadian for equal TLCDecember 22, 2006 12:12 PM

    I am just happy that we are gettin some improvements!

    With or without sidewalks you can't get your property tax money back. The City spent it all on engineers who designed us a $50 million dollar unecessary storm drain that will never be constructed.

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  12. Roadside Park BumDecember 22, 2006 4:34 PM

    DR. Lorri, yes I'm still being good and it's not easy at times, specially when I see some of the posts here, but yes I'm being good.
    As for your offer to give me a book on guilt for free.... well that would be nice but I'd feel "too guilty" by accepting it!! Ha,Ha,Ha.LOL, ROFLMAO!! I'm too witty for my own good some times!! And besides I wouldn't want you to throw a "guilt trip" on me in the future!! Again I am ROFLMAO!!!!! Damn I AM funny!!!! Must be the booze. Gotta go, gonna be cold again tonight, need to find someplace warm and dry. Maybe BOB will let me wrap myself in the Christmas lights he uses to draw customers to his cafe, those little lights put out some heat!!!
    RSPB- see I'm still being nice!!!

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  13. The "golf club set," wants to practically privatize Leucadia Blvd. Three roundabouts in a row are ridiculous. We need to study the one at Santa Fe longer, before we put in another one, anywhere.

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  14. The back up caused by three will be so bad that the street will be used mainly by "meandering pedestrians."

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  15. First the City opened up Leucadia Blvd, through its public golf course, at which many residents cannot afford to tee off. Now they want us to look like a gated community down Leucadia Blvd. This is for status and aesthetics, to increase the property values of nearby residents, at the expense of the traffic flow, for locals, too!

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  16. These three roundabouts are not designed for traffic calming measures. Another four way stop sign, not a signal, would be better.

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  17. I don't see roundabouts in the new developments in San Marcos. There, schools have crossing guards.

    We could still have medians, and sidewalks, without forcing three roundabouts on us. Listen to the fire marshal; he is a safety expert.

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  18. This will be appealed to the Coastal Commission, if it passes Council. I hope Council considers this carefully and reverses the Planning Commission; the commissioners are not experts.

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  19. Whose proposal was this, anyway, primarily developers and realtors? And IMBY's, yes IN MY BACKYARD, at everyone's expense.

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  20. What about our library? That is more important, right now. Staff is bumbling along, can't even get the EIR and Traffic overlay completed.

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  21. Looks like the last 8 post were from the same angry person

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  22. The next person who wants to put another 4 way stop on Leucadia Blvd is getting kicked in the nuts. I'm serious.

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  23. I don't know, I thought the comments made some sense, didn't get a sense of anger, just someone who doesn't think the roundabouts will work to calm traffic.

    We'd all like pedestrians to be able to walk, I think. That is really a separate issue from the roundabouts, isn't it? Seems it should be.

    And why can't we have a few medians, closer to Coast Hwy?

    This doesn't have to be all inclusive, does it?

    JP, what if the person posting about the 4 way has no nuts?

    Do you hate the 4 way at Marchetta, by Juanita's? They put that one there after a Nun got run over. St. John's Church used to be west of Juanitas where that fairly new development is, now.

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  24. I miss the old St John's festival when it was by Juanita's. I've never even bothered to go one since they moved to Encinitas Blvd.

    By the way, the Juanita's stop is not 4 way. It's 3 way.

    Poor nun, why didn't she fly out of the way???

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  25. I agree about the 4 way stops J.P. The City put a 4 way stop sign on Birmingham where the freeway is. It backs up traffic forever and it is a pain in the ass! Not the smartest way it could have been done, but after all, let's remember who did it?

    Yes, J.P. I do drive a 1997 white Camero Convertible. I love it, and since my "shrink" office is in Cardiff, I will probably keep it until I can't drive anymore. I doubt if the RSPB drives a Trans Am, as his personality just doesn't quite fit the type. If you knew me better, you would know I am exactly the kind of woman who would drive a Camero Convertible. Check out my website: www.petbereavement.com and see for yourself.

    As for RSPB, I will give you a book and then guilt trip you later. If my book does what it is intended to do, you won't allow yourself to be guilt-tripped. So you can be my guiena pig. How's that for a transition? From bum to pig in one reading. Happy holidays to all.

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  26. tortilla flats in da houseDecember 22, 2006 8:28 PM

    there sure are a lot of whiners on this blog. I'm old but I still walk from the flats up to the golf course for a stroll and down to beacons to check the surf. Of course I'm not a fat lazy fucker like many of you people. Roundabouts work fine.

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  27. hey torilla flats -- most of these bloggers are from west of 5 -- and they do not realize that we on the east are still leucadians - so maybe they do not want a walkable Leucadia -- I don't know just seems to me -- you should not forget your friends to the east --

    walk on i say

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  28. Bitchin Camero, Bitchin Camero, I ran over my neighbor!

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  29. Yeah, you're right, JP. Because of the railroad tracks, the stop sign at Marchetta is a three way.

    Nice post Dr. Lorri. I will check out your website. You look fine driving in your white convertible to Council Meetings.

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  30. Tortilla Flats, do you enjoy using your nasty language, calling us whiners? I have appreciated your posts in the past. But when you talk like trash, don't complain about the trash graffiti in your neighborhood. It's a reflection of part of ourselves, of you, too.

    I don't think most people who comment here are whiners or lazy. Some people who are fortunate to live west of Coast Hwy take walks on the beach, when possible.

    So you could be right; some may not realize how many pedestrians are walking east of I-5, down to the beach. They certainly may exist.

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  31. I do know one gent who walked from west of Coast Hwy. up to his job at Jimbo's. Most bloggers are not lazy, maybe hazy, sometimes.

    Yes, most of us post and read here to be better informed, not to put each other and our viewpoints down.

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  32. Stick together or fall apart.

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  33. Hey, the point is that the roundabouts will not be traffic calming.

    Nobody said we would not benefit by sidewalks up and down Leucadia Blvd, and some medians too, if we can afford them.

    Three roundabouts are crazy. We should do none until we have at least a couple of years to study the effect of the one at Santa Fe. Are there more accidents, more near misses? Will traffic be worse, instead of better?

    We should "lobby" for the sidewalks, skip the roundabouts, for now.

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  34. Seems to me, it doesn't have to be all or none. I'm in agreement with the previous post. We should work for sidewalks along Leucadia Blvd., hold off on the roundabouts, for now.

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  35. OK -- Are the roundabouts a done deal or do they still have to be approved by the city council. If that is the case then we need to go to the meeting and voice our concerns.

    Personally, I can see one roundabout -- not three. And sidewalks are a must for Leucadia Blvd.

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  36. In my opinion, because the roundabout discussion passed the Planning Commission unanimously, the plan, including funding, I presume, will be placed on the consent calendar at a future Council Meeting. Any member of Council, or the public, can pull the item for discussion. Typically, it is passed, anyway. Also, I believe someone could set an agenda item by appealing the decision.

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  37. An appeal now requires a $250.00 dollar investment, which some indidviduals cannot afford, particularly with the high cost of living in this area.

    Council also raised the amount individuals have to pay for an appeal from $100 to $250 last year, to eliminate those who object, but can't afford the raised fees required to do so through the appeal process.

    The County and State have fee waivers available for appeals. Our City has been asked about this; it was actually on the agenda before. However, why would this be addressed when the very people requesting the waiver are objecting to City policies?

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  38. I believe someone, like the Fire Marshall, could take his or her concerns to the Coastal Commission. These roundabouts will have an impact on beach access for many; this is a public project.

    The proposal does not deserve a negative impact declaration as was given to the low income overlay upzoning plan.

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  39. I drive the roundabout on Santa Fe Drive daily. I hate it. It looks nice, although the $10,000 tree in the center appears to struggling to put out proper leaves.

    It's not a question of negotiating the roundabout. That's easy enough. It's the other drivers when the traffic gets heavier. Many drivers don't seem to realize that they are approaching a yield sign and may need to stop completely. And no one seems to use turn signals, so it impossible to know if a vehicle is going to continue around the circle or just go straight through.

    I've seen several near accidents, so I approach and go through very carefully. Others hardly slow down.

    The council will still need to approve the roundabout. One roundabout on Leucadia Blvd. is problematic. Three would be overkill.

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  40. Unless the council sells more bonds, the money to pay for the first phase on Leucadia is in question. There's not enough money.

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  41. I say don't start anything new until the library is FINISHED.

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  42. Does anyone remember when Encinitas's answer to traffic control was to just put in another stop sign? Look at the results. El Camino Real through Weigand City, Encinitas Blvd at Saxony..well actually all of Encinitas Blvd and Leucadia Blvd at Vulcan is a disaster. Perhaps roundabouts are the answer (at least they're prettier than stop signs) as for the walking part of roundabouts, has anyone tried to cross the street at the one on Santa Fe? The cross walks are set back of the roundabout and cars don't see the pedestrian until they are beginning their exit of the darn thing... at least that one is close to the hospital.

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  43. I also wonder if there will be enough money. Perhaps ditching one roundabout in Phase I will help.

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  44. There aren't many pedestrians that cross at the Santa Fe Drive roundabout. Has anyone seen 15 or 20 pedestrians waiting for traffic to clear at a roundabout?

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  45. How about 3 more traffic signals. Seems to have worked on Carlsbad Village Drive, although I do not feel that safe walking along the road there. The signals would keep the traffic flowing from the freeway to 101 helping move the traffic that exits the freeway in the morning. The roundabouts, while safer for peds and cars, would slow everyone down too much. Leucadia Blvd is a major roadway and needs to serve more than just the residents that live along it.

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  46. The roundabout on Santa Fe is iffy for pedestrians. Drivers on the opposite side where a walker is crossing can't see the person until they come around. This is partly a design problem, as the raised planting bed in the center blocks the view and the turning radius is too tight. Looks nice, but it ain't so safe for people on foot. A big design flaw if the motive is to accommodate and encourage walking.

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  47. Carlsbad Village Drive has lights because the cross streets have business on them. It's a downtown business grid area. Leucadia Blvd is an artery cutting through a residential neighborhood. It's not the same. Say NO stop signs, say NO to lights.

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  48. Some of you bloggers are whiners. The SF roundabout is pedestrian friendly. I cross it everyday on foot. I drive it several times a day. I haven't had a problem with it.

    Some of the bloggers here bitch about everything new and meant to improve our city. Three round abouts on Leucadia would be great for this city. Maybe it will keep some of the I-5 traffic on I-5.

    If you can't negotiate a traffic circle safely maybe you shouldn't be driving at all.

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  49. what are all you cry babies going to do when the big one hits? I have never in my life seen such of useless pencil neck geeks as you people

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  50. And Happy Holidays to you too, anonymous. You are being very undude. This isn't like Nam. There are rules. One of them is being nice, at least once a year at this time. Even RSPB gets that. Your aggression will not stand! Apologize, or we will sick Sabine on you.

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  51. Some losers what to keep Leucadia blight. The conceptual plan including roundabouts was approved by council and given direction to staff to design and build the two roundabouts. I wish they could build all three.

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  52. If the issue does come before the Coastal Commision they would love it. More efficient vehicular flow. Safter ped crossings, and better looking landscaping.

    The three roundabouts will increase traffic not decrease it.

    The alternative is 4 way stops which would further back up traffic.

    Signals are the worse alternative and kill people and charactor of the neighborhood. Anyone liking Signals does not live in Leucadia.

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  53. My bet is Frank Scarborough and Dave the Fire Marshal don't live in Leucadia. Frank is probably just worried that his I5 shortcut may be calmed, and he cant race from Hygeia to Vulan from 0 to 50 to 0 in 3 second. Instead he will have to go an average of 30mph and will not increase his commutor time at all.

    The fire marshal needs to start looking at issues to increase safety. Just shouting wider road, WIDER ROAD with MASSIVE SIGNALS will make us look like LA and kill people.

    The City Planners gets it, the City Engineers get it, the City Council gets it, the planning commision get it, the smart non-schizo residents get it. If our City Employees can not understand that we want safe streets, its time to replace them. We want employees looking to build a better Encinitas, Not LA.

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  54. I bet nay sayer whiners use all of encinitas as a cut-thru raceway to avoid I5. They are the reason we need the traffic calming in the first place.

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  55. Anyone agains this project is clearly against Leucadia.

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  56. This is a wonderful project that will save lives and be good for the community.

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  57. If you have problems with roundabouts you are probably blowing through red lights and four way stops all the time. The only problem you might have with a roundabout is if you hit one going 50mph. And then you deserve to loose your license.

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  58. Have you ever listened to our Encinitas Firemarshall. He is rude and is only thinking about his firemen. He has no concept of community. Being an ex-fireman, I went out and got a real job after two years, I can tell you these fireman's concerns are for thier own workload and not your safety.

    When a truck or engine goes over a speed bump or hump they have to repack the hose bed and tools. That takes time out from their big screen televisions or work out time. They don't like that. The trucks and engines they drive can negotiate those obstacles like any car does. The difference is extra work for the firemen.

    So you can discount their objections to any speed calming device in the city.

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  59. Response to the eight post person who named themselves "Bogus" in the North county Times-

    Learn about roundabouts

    Traffic control is warranted and needed at Hermes and Hymettus. Roundabouts will not cause any reduction in travel time through this segment of road, while adding two more 4 way stops along the stretch would increase gridlock. Ask the fire marshal how much delay does a 4 way stop have on emergency responses. Bogus is clueless and needs to learn more on the subject and not just babble talk. Sante Fe Avenue is a terrific project which is loved by all. Leucadia wants a similar wonderful project. The Coastal commission will love the project to increase safe pedestrian and vehicular traffic to the Coast.

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  60. The comment from the Planning Commissioners to Dave the Fire Marshal was classic.

    "If it was up to the fire department, every road would be 100 feet wide"

    Great quote.

    I'm starting to think the fire marshal does not live in Encinitas or give a rat’s ass about Encinitas. He just likes wide fast roadways. We don’t we realize they destroy our quality of life and safety of our citizens.

    Dave the fire Marshal better start thinking of accident prevention to get in line with what his community wants. Otherwise he should look for a job with the City of LA, with their wide open roadways and no sidewalks and landscaping.

    We should replace Dave with someone who cares about our community and accident prevention.

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  61. Dave is a short timer. Soon he will retire (within a year, or less). I have no idea who will replace him.

    Dave is generally very conservative in his analysis of projects in the city. He is perhaps more conservative in circulation projects than structures, but still he could give a little (and is often forced to do so).

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  62. Three roundabouts sounds a little like going on the tea cups ride at Disneyland but I'll take roundabouts over stop signs and lights for shure.

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  63. Maybe with Guerin gone the boys won't be as beholding to the fireboys. Perhaps we can downsize the fire mcmansions, get a new chief and fire marshal. It only takes three votes to do all or any of that.

    Instead of fire mcmansions we should us ethat money to traffic calm all the neighborhoods that have eccesive speeds.

    I for one would like to see more speed enforcement than flat screen tv's and new refrigerators for the firemen. Think about it, have you ever seen a speeding ticket written on your street?

    How about speed cameras like we have red light cameras?

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  64. Good. I hope Dave retires soon. Too bad he gets a life of pension at 90% of his highest paid years for life at our expense. He is not good for Encinitas. The sooner the better.

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  65. Some one needs to wake up the fire marshal. It’s all about balance. Response time is only half the equation. The speeding hazardous cars are 24 hours a day as well. The residents, and hopefully fire department, want safer streets so their kids don't get smeared on their way to school and the beach. The safer roads the less accidents and need for emergency response calls.

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  66. Unfortunately, wide open roads promote speeding and accidents. I’m glad to see that the City is promoting safer streets. Some one needs to explain to Dave the fire marshall that he should be promoting the design of safer streets. People do not want to be hurt or killed 24 hours a day everyday of the year. Accident prevention is as or more important than accident response.

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  67. No one has done a study that proves a roundabout would decrease accidents. We should study the one at Santa Fe to see if it does calm traffic and reduce accidents.

    The one on Santa Fe is tiny, miniature. The roundabouts in Rome, Mexico City, other places are big, with ten lanes or more coming into them and exiting them.

    I don't see the point in a roundabout for four lanes of traffic, total, including the side streets. I don't know what traffic "calming," really means. If it means slowing down speeders, then that is not really a problem on Leucadia Blvd., from what I've seen.

    I think many people simply want drivers to avoid Leucadia Blvd. altogether, to avoid the delay, which is NOT calming, and to avoid the maze.

    One person is posting over and over. I think the fire guys should tone down their Mcmansions, and their pensions are excessive, now, but that is a separate issue.

    Trying to demonize the fire marshall for speaking out is not in the best interests of our community, in my humble opinion.

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  68. Last post-

    Your ignorance shows that you don’t know anything about roundabouts, or safety of roadways.

    If you were humble, you would learn about traffic issues before spouting off. Your comments show you obviously support the existing unsafe condition that exists.

    If you do your homework, you'll find that Leucadia petitioned the City to put 4 way stops at Hymettus because of the unsafe condition, and people on Hermes have a very unsafe condition condition entering Leucadia Blvd. Additionally, the existing 4 way stop places an unfair burden on Hygeia. Hygeia receives 5 times the traffic that Hymettus and Hermes realizes every day. The alternative is 4 way stops at all the intersections of Hymettus, Hygeia and Hermes. what do you think that will do to traffic and emergency response times?

    If you are somewhat intelligent, you will know that roundabout will not cause further delay in your commuter time. The 4 way stop and the signal at Vulcan/HW101 meter the traffic flow.

    Educate yourself before you post. You are so obvious that you don't care about the leucadia neighborhood, but are only looking to increase your speed in our neighborhood. If you want to do some good, lobby the state to build the freeway expansion, grade separate the railway and build a second track to allow more commuters to use the trains, and stay on I5. Quite cutting through our neighborhoods to get to San Diego.

    There is so much data on the preference of roundabouts that even CALTRANS is starting to use them at onramp and off ramp locations intersecting with local roads. Roundabout are a better solution (safer, more efficient, lower long term cost, and better looking) than a signal and 4 way stops.

    Go to:

    http://www.roundabouts.net/roundabouts.html

    or:

    http://www.teachamerica.com/roundabouts/RA055B_ppr_Weinberger.pdf

    or search the fricken web.

    The bottom line is roundabouts are proven to be much or effective from a vehicular efficiency standpoint and pedestrian standpoint.

    There is no need for further study with the exception of you needing to study and learn about traffic issues.

    Lastly, we know you won’t reduce your speed below 50 mph through our neighborhood until we build the roundabouts. Please get educated about building safer roadways and accident prevention. After they are built, you will drive 30 to 35 mph down through our beach community, you will enjoy Leucadia for all it has to offer, and you will support a better Encinitas.

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  69. RSPB points his shaking, accusing, finger again, when he's the one who is babbling.

    You don't have to make enemies out of people, falsely accuse them of speeding to get your drunken point across. You don't know who you are talking to, here, Mr. M, or what you are talking about.

    It's not us vs. them, fire marshal vs. neighbors. Because people don't think three roundabouts are a good idea, or will be traffic calming, doesn't mean they don't care about Leucadia.

    You are delusional. Way too many cocktails tonight, for you. I don't go 50 mph except where it's posted that I may, keeping with the flow of traffic, on La Costa, for example.

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  70. If CALTRANS is starting to put in roundabouts, let them put in one on Leucadia Blvd. There's a freeway on ramp there, and off ramp, too.

    Why do the taxpayers of Encinitas have to give up our library, and pedestrian crossing over the railroad tracks so a few people can have their "improvements?" Who gets to decide what constitutents an improvement?

    You are wrong to think it's only one person who thinks three roundabouts is a terrible idea.

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  71. Over 200 hundred people, who attended the workshops unlike your Vista Ass, disagree with your shizo personality. “Babble” calm yourshelf, or seek treatment.

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  72. What workshops? When were they held, and where? Why weren't people notified.

    It is obvious who is babbling. Why would someone from Vista bother posting. I live in Leucadia, have lived in this community for nearly 30 years.

    Obviously you know a lot about babbling, and meds. Calm yourself, Jerome.

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