Saturday, August 11, 2007

New Website: Friends of the Hall Park

A dense and comprehensive website with all the Hall Park info you could want (the background photo on the site is of Swami's beach and not the Hall property which is odd). The website could benefit from a photo gallery of the existing property and a better map. Maybe even add a message board where people can leave angry comments instead of on this blog? The theme of the website is "Scale Back the Park".

Friends of the Hall Property Park



Read the riveting discussion about the Hall Park on this blog post: Leucadia Blog: More Hall Park Drama

37 comments:

  1. The hall property matters to Leucadians for three reasons:

    1. The hall park is a giant sucking sound that is taking all the money that should have and would have gone to fixing Leucadia. I call it the "Keep Leucadia Junky Park"

    2. The shady dealings, backroom deals, and bad behavior of the city council over this park should be a lesson for Leucadia. These are our leaders too.

    3. The hall property is clogging up our blog. It is time for a cardiff blog.

    ReplyDelete
  2. The Hall park should matter to everyone in Encinitas, not just to those who live in Cardiff. The park just happens to be located there. But all of us will end up paying for it.

    I find the financial aspects of the park the most disturbing factor. Our city has been less than responsible in handling the matter up to this point in time. Jerome Stocks was recently asked where the money was going to come from. He flippantly answered, "We'll find it somewhere."

    With that kind of answer, we will be in big trouble. The park will be a giant vaccuum cleaner sucking up money for a long time to come. If the plan isn't changed to something most modest and more suitable to all of our needs, most of us will feel that we have been royally had by the clowns on the city council.

    ReplyDelete
  3. www.hallpropertypark.com./index.html

    has more info.

    We all should care.
    I agree with leucadian, except for reason #3.
    This is a huge issue for all our city and the future Encinitas we leave for our children.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I agree with #1 and #2 from the first comment, but not #3. We are all part of the incorporated City of Encinitas. This issue deals with "shady deals, and bad behavior of the city council. . ." It's crazy and inconsistent to then say the hall property is "clogging the blog."

    The negligent actions of our public servants to reward special interests at taxpayers' expense matters to all of us, whether we realize it or not.

    Most of Leucadians do care, and hope that the park will be scaled back, that the City will comply with Calif. Environmental Quality Act.

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  5. Why isn't there a cardiff specific blog?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Next time you run into one of these NIMBY's at Seaside market or Trader Joes passing out info ask them just two questions.

    "Do you have childred under the age of 18 that would benefit from a place to play"

    If yes;

    "Do you live in the neihborhood directly adjacent to the park?"
    (most of those people knew a park was coming when they bought but refuse to remember)

    The rest of their yammering is just noise.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Mixed-use destroys neighborhoods.

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  8. well, there is a Hall Property website, now. Why don't you contact them and suggest they enable people to post comments on a community forum?

    Also, leucadia.blogspot.com is not Leucadia specific.

    Anyone posting has the power to start his or her own blog if one has the knowledge, technical ability, and the time.

    Most of us don't have all of those, yet. I'm glad JP offers this forum through his service to community. I don't think it helps to be separative and say that certain issues, such as the City's expenditure of funds, or lack of open sessions, should be relagated to a Leucadia blog or a Cardiff blog.

    By joining together in a spirit of honesty, openness and concern, we can all make a difference.

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  9. Why no Cardiff blog? Because we are all Encinitans. We can all help each other more by working together for the betterment of the whole city.

    I suppose if Leucadians were a separate city, they wouldn't give a fig for Cardiff, and vice-versa. But we are all in this mess together.

    If any issue clogged the blog, it was the Cardiff surf statue. That was J.P. choice, and it's his blog.

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  10. Re: 2:49....
    Actually, there is one merchant here in Leucadia who would like to secede from Encinitas, annex to Carlsbad, let Legoland put facades on all the shops and rename it "Legodia".

    ReplyDelete
  11. To Anonymous at 10:36 am:

    I spoke with a nice young lady in front of Pipes restaurant on Saturday. She is what you are calling a "nimby." I did ask her those two questions and some others. The wait to order and eat was very long. She said she has two young kids and both play soccer. She lives on Glasgow at the south end. She doesn't want lighted fields, regional tournaments, and traffic clogging her street. Is that so unreasonable?

    Nothing was ever said about not wanting a park, but only about what kind of park it would be. Now a question for you. What is your investment in the park that you won't listen to reasonable changes?

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  12. In response to below Anonymous:
    It seems that all the pro-"special use" park folks believe that the majority of Encinitas does not want any playing fields. This is not true. They want not only their children, but yours too to be able to enjoy a community park, that was proposed. They also want a park that will benifit you and your mom,uncle,grandmother,and your kids when they are not scheduled to compete or too old, not athletic or want on option to do other things. The solution is to have a park designed for all of our citizens.
    The "yammering" you address is the sounds of folks wanting the best for the most of Encinitas.
    I live near the park area. Five years ago we mover close to greenhouses. I do not think a community park for all is a bad thing. I do believe that an Irvine-like SPECIAL USE REGIONAL SPORTS facility would decrease property values cause traffic horrors and deminish the quality of life in this area of Encinitas and be a missed oppertunity to keep the beauty that we all cherish in our town for our decendents. I further believe that to spend masses of money on accomadating specials interests when there are areas of our city, (leucadia), that have serious inferstructure problems, serious flood problems, dangerous traffic problems and many, many, many years of deferred maintenence issues and very little money to solve these problems.

    Unlike you, folks are concerned,(yammering), more about the future of our city than just your childs scheduled competition.
    Open your mind and concider what is the best future for ALL.
    Thank you.


    Anonymous said...
    Next time you run into one of these NIMBY's at Seaside market or Trader Joes passing out info ask them just two questions.
    "Do you have childred under the age of 18 that would benefit from a place to play"If yes;
    "Do you live in the neihborhood directly adjacent to the park?"(most of those people knew a park was coming when they bought but refuse to remember)
    The rest of their yammering is just noise.

    August 12, 2007 10:36 AM

    ReplyDelete
  13. Hey JP,Can you replace this one for the previous? I didn't finish a sentence. Thanks.



    In response to below Anonymous:
    It seems that all the pro-"special use" park folks believe that the majority of Encinitas does not want any playing fields. This is not true. They want not only their children, but yours too to be able to enjoy a community park, that was proposed. They also want a park that will benifit you and your mom,uncle,grandmother,and your kids when they are not scheduled to compete or too old, not athletic or want on option to do other things. The solution is to have a park designed for all of our citizens.
    The "yammering" you address is the sounds of folks wanting the best for the most of Encinitas.
    I live near the park area. Five years ago we mover close to greenhouses. I do not think a community park for all is a bad thing. I do believe that an Irvine-like SPECIAL USE REGIONAL SPORTS facility would decrease property values cause traffic horrors and deminish the quality of life in this area of Encinitas and be a missed oppertunity to keep the beauty that we all cherish in our town for our decendents. I further believe that to spend masses of money on accomadating specials interests when there are areas of our city, (leucadia), that have serious inferstructure problems, serious flood problems, dangerous traffic problems and many, many, many years of deferred maintenence issues and very little money to solve these problems, is wrong.

    Unlike you, folks are concerned,(yammering), more about the future of our city than just your childs scheduled competition.
    Open your mind and concider what is the best future for ALL.
    Thank you.


    Anonymous said...
    Next time you run into one of these NIMBY's at Seaside market or Trader Joes passing out info ask them just two questions.
    "Do you have childred under the age of 18 that would benefit from a place to play"If yes;
    "Do you live in the neihborhood directly adjacent to the park?"(most of those people knew a park was coming when they bought but refuse to remember)
    The rest of their yammering is just noise.

    August 12, 2007 10:36 AM

    August 12, 2007 7:51 PM

    ReplyDelete
  14. JP, SINCE YOU ARE EDITING THE INCOMING ANYWAY,(SORRY,i DIDN'T REALIZE MY CAPS WERE ENGAGED),MAYBE YOU COULD SPELL CHECK FOR US.
    gILL WOULD LIKE IT.
    sO WOULD mICKY AND Anonymous.
    i WOULD UNDERSTAND IF YOU CHOSE NOT TO.
    tHANKS.

    ReplyDelete
  15. I agree that we should scale back the park to meet the needs and concerns of the majority of citizens.

    I do not live in the neighborhood, but I used to live in Cardiff, in the 80's. Yes, we are all part of the incorporated City of Encinitas, now, and our opinions all matter.

    I had daughters who played sports. I don't think a regional sports park is what the majority of people want, or said they wanted at the workshops that were held.

    It gets tiring to just be called a "NIMBY," all the time. Think about it. All of Encinitas, including Cardiff is our "backyard." Let's not mess it up for ourselves and future generations by buying into a park that will suck the financial vitality out of our City, and clog our streets with further traffic from far and wide.

    We don't want a regional sports complex. Don't dismiss the message by calling all of us messengers, NIMBY's. Say the words, Not in my backyard. You wouldn't want this mess in your backyard, however far that may extend in your mind.

    ReplyDelete
  16. LOVE the Park LARGEAugust 13, 2007 6:59 AM

    It's amazing to me that a City wants to build a huge park for it's citizens and some people actually are against it and want it reduced.

    It's basically a free park to the citizens.

    For those that say its "sucking money" from other projects I think is false. The government's going to blow it somehow, let's at least blow it on something substantial.

    I would love to live by that big park - but I have 2 young kids. Maybe it's just the old farts complaining?

    It's good for us.

    ReplyDelete
  17. dear anon 1036;

    You don't get it. My kids grew up not long ago playing soccer, football, lacrosse. We never, get that never, had a problem getting a field. I went to many regional sports park. What a mess they were for the neighborhoods. We always had to park on a residential street. I saw many "soccer moms" leaving diapers and bottles on the streets as they left the playing fields. Is that what we want for our city. I personally don't leave near the Hall property but certainly don't want a REGIONAL SPORTS FACILITY in our city.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Let's see here. This evil park covers teen use, Baseball, Basketball, Aquatic, Dog and multi sport.

    Sounds like real trouble so lets take some pot shots at the uses. It lacks a tire swing as far as I can see so thats a start.

    Hey, I can get into this NIMBY thing, it's kinda fun!!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Cardiff taxpayerAugust 13, 2007 12:45 PM

    As a taxpayer I can tell you that ANY park there will cost enormous amounts of money. J Stocks comments of where they will find the money rings true... they will find the money, somewhere. Probably at the expense of other city projects such as those in Leucadia.

    In any event the park won't be built for at least 5 years and as it sits now it's a major eyesore of weeds and dirt.

    Remember follow the money and watch out for any candidate running for council that says he/she can tell you where the money will come from... they lie.

    ReplyDelete
  20. "Friends" website gives no alternatives except for conflict assessment, mediation, and, "legal remedies." Sounds like a project derailing, taxpayer funded, LAWSUIT to me... Stay tuned for our next episode: "The Great Condo Conspiracy" in which the city is forced to sell the land and a heroic developer buys the land and builds 1000+ condos. Remember you heard it here first on Leucadia Blogspot!

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  21. Anon 3:05 is pure scare tactics.

    The area is not zoned for condos. Changing it to that zoning would require a public vote, as it is a major change from what I believe is R-3. What the City should do is change the zoning to public park. That's what most folks do want.

    However, I agree, we do not want a regional sports complex, now being described as a specialty sports park, rather than what we said we wanted, a community park.

    The park could and should be scaled back. Too many hardscapes and too many "dedicated" sports fields, with grass and 90 foot light poles. I'm not from the neighborhood. I do have kids.

    Still, I don't want it as currently being forced upon us by special interests.

    ReplyDelete
  22. hmmm...dirt and weeds, eh? Lots of different size lots that are adjacent to each other, no lending institutions or banks, potentially hazarderous waste zones, oh my...could this property be classified as "BLIGHTED"? Sounds a lot like Leucadia. A Redevelopment Agency in Cardiff?..why not? IMHO, could happen-very easily.

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  23. Anon 3:36 - sorry, no scare tactics intended, just wild speculation as to the result of never ending litigation. City isn't likely to sell (I hope)but I bet that, at a million bucks or so per home, 44 acres of R-3, the land has attracted other interested parties who would offload city debt, pay for roads and maybe even a community park. And you and I would have the same amount of say so as when the land was purchased... Far fetched perhaps, but not impossible.

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  24. I heard that if the park goes in the lights might be 150 feet tall and that every day 2,500 cars would drive in and out and that really evil types may hang out in the bathrooms.

    Can I vote to have a Costco or 170 new homes instead?

    Cause that might be better... Don't you agree?

    Although, do we REALLY think that 2,500 cars will be accessing the park EVERY day? especially during the rush hour? Or mid-day during the week? Are parks such strange creatures that we have no experience observing them in real life? I have and I just don't see the threat to our way of life that goes along with the claims of the pot-stirrers on this one.

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  25. I haven't heard you agreeing to a regional sports park in your backyard. When you do you have room to criticize the 'NIMBY'. Until you do you should keep silent on the issue.

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  26. just returned from joshua tree. temps 95-105. lizard weather but incredible night skys. did read the EIR sections vol. 1 & 2 and relevent appxs. on haz-mats. Nothing very shocking or unexpected. Nothing we can't deal with. If you can cite the section that disturbs you i would address it or them.

    i support a park that increases the property values of the homes in the immediate area and the desirability of living anywhere in encinitas. that is NOT a park comprised primarily of lighted ball fields catering to primarily organized events.

    i support a park that is phased in it's development. i expect leucadia main-street and the cardiff business district alleys that are an embarrassnment to be dealt with long before the hall property is completed.

    if the park takes 15 or 20 years to complete thru 3 or 4 phases, so be it. at that point, if in retrospect it cost 60 million as one previous blogger suggested, that is $1000. per resident. if it is a park that can be used by all the residents, that seems like good value.

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  27. as to the council spending an additional 100,000 on deeper EIR research.... it just seems to me that it is better to be on as firm ground as possible so that if an issue does end up in court the council has done more than due diligence.

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  28. as to the blogger who seemed to chastise previous agricultural use of 4,4,DDT, the fact is that DDT's effect on the environment was far greater than it's effect on humans. one of the reasons the US got a handle on mesquitos and malaria was DDT. and bedbugs were almost elimimated as a scourge. the bedbug problem is now rapidly escalating and DDT is no longer available. think i'm kidding. check out the front page article in Mondays LA times and shudder.

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  29. Bravo, Gil.

    Seems like it would make sense to reduce the number of fields to four (?), light one field for night play in an area least disruptive for the neighbors, dedicate passive use open space, and phase the park in to allow time to monitor the impact and develop the supporting infrastructure.

    And thanks, JP, this blog is quite helpful.

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  30. i just can't support any lighted fields. once the dam starts to leak there is no holding it back. i would rather schedule games to finish by sunset and avoid any lights or poles that sprout antennas and dishes before the cement sets. not 4 baseball fields but four field like areas. perhaps two set up as diamonds and two other non contiguous areas, each large enough to play soccer or flag football on and interspersed with picnic tables and eventually trees large enough and setting relaxed enough for a family to have a picnic under. paths throughout illuminated by solar path lights that slowly fade as the batteries run down, self reguating the end of heavy park use each day.

    been out in the sun too much in joshua tree gil? i hope not.

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  31. Yep, Gil, two diamonds and two multi-use fields will do nicely. Your point re: lighting is well taken -- the Lake Fields should suffice. I am more familiar with youth soccer and IIRC there isn't a pressing need to play at night although adult (after work)leagues are growing.

    Will there be a meteor viewing area for those of us unable to frequent Joshua Tree...?

    Next up: traffic circulation.

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  32. The poster above is incomplete with his comments on DDT. It is still being used in Africa and parts of Asia. It is banned in the US for the very reason it was effective in mosquito control: its longevity in the environment. This is not months or years, but decades, thus it accumulates and builds up concentrations with continued use. DDT accumlates in the human body in fatty tissues and is found in mothers' milk with uncertain consequences.

    DDT wrecks havoc with wildlife, especially birds, whose egg shells will not properly form. Remember Rachel Carson's Silent Spring?
    This is why, until recently, pelicans and eagles were rare or completely absent from areas. Ospreys are returning to Leucadia and bald eagles to Lake Henshaw. But it is slow. The ocean in LA around the Palos Verdes Penisula, near the old DDT factory, is so polluted with DDT that commercial fishing is banned. The LA Times covered this a few months ago. An individual can choose to fish there and eat the catch, but societal norms do not allow this.

    I worked 3 months in the Caribbean on St. Croix, Virgin Islands, in mosquito abatement. This was mainly checking cisterns to be sure they weren't breeding grounds for mosquitos. Subsequently I lived for 2 years in tropical west Africa in the area that used to be called "the white man's graveyard" because of malaria and other diseases. I never used DDT in my house and never got malaria. Of course, I used a mosquito net for sleeping, took my Aralen (quinine-type drug) every week, and used insect repellant.

    With modern IPM (Integrated Pest Management) mosquitos and bedbugs can be controlled without relying on massive applications of a single pesticide over wide areas. All modern pesticides by design decompose very rapidely in the environment. The old persistent chlorinated hydrocarbons are mostly gone.

    I believe that the reintroduction of malaria, bedbugs, tuberculosis, and other scourges has more to do with the huge increase in international travel than restrictions in DDT use. In tropical Africa, the area I know best,the surge in malaria and other diseases, including HIV, has everything to with with poverty, ignorance, corruption, civil wars, enthic rivalries, and just plain dysfunctional governments and little to do with DDT.

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  33. Cardiffian is pretty right on. There is some DDT use in other areas of the world as well. in no
    way was i advocating a return to DDT use in the US. i was only trying to say that when DDT use was prevalent in the US it was because that is what the chemical companies offered the chemical consumers and that the contamination issue in the park is everyone and no ones “fault.”
    that the apparent location, depth and percentage of contamination are a minor problem that we
    have the ability and technology to remedy.

    the ocean off palo verde is a different story. i believe drums and drums and drums of DDT were
    dumped there before we knew better.

    yes, most chemical users are smarter and wiser now and the chemical companies are trying to
    respond to consumer driven demand for product that is effective for the target with little or no
    immediate secondary kill or long term effect on the environment or human population. IPM is
    part of my life, at home and on the farms. not because i’m a treehugger/NF, but because the
    women working for me are of child bearing age and my need for the pollinators for the seed
    crops at every location i farm. i need the hummingbirds and bees on lake drive and the cactus
    moth/worm, hummingbirds, feral bees and bats in the desert.

    i would revert to an organo phosphate only when all else falls and then only in the very specific
    target area. i am especially conscious on lake because my feral bee hive is in it’s second year on
    the property. it is a very well managed hive (long live the queen) they are a very docile strain. i would imagine that fruit tree and vegetable garden fruit set has increased in their immediate two mile range. the hummingbirds return year after year to the eucalyptus trees on the neighboring park place property and now teach their young the location, on bird-of-paradise flowers, of the male pollen (also a food source) which coats their beak and tongue, which then comes in contact with the female part of the flower when they dip in for some nectar. it’s an interesting flower. next time you pass one, gently push down on the tip of the blue part of the flower, you will be amazed as the two halves open for you and the male pollen is exposed. we had to teach them the
    first couple years but now the parents teach the young. ain’t nature grand.

    there is no question that the world has become more “one” with the increase in travel and
    decrease in travel time. and ignorance, poverty, and all the other issues cited by cardiffian make
    the task of living a civilized life in a civilized world a challenge. but it’s worth it, isn’t it?

    jp you've tighten the blogging restrictions up so much the site is getting a bit too too sanitary.
    what's the story?

    ReplyDelete
  34. I'm tired of taking heat for all the rabid anonymous comments.

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  35. Don't blame ya JP... it's amazing how vicious "anonymous" posts can get. Even though the screen names may still be fictitious now, at least the discussions/comments may be a bit more civil.

    Can we still flame the statue?

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  36. YOU MAY NOT MAKE FUN OF THE STATUE. THE STATUE IS QUALITY PUBLIC ART AND THE PUBLIC IS NOT ALLOWED ANY DISSENT. ANYTHING BUT PRAISE FOR THE STATUE WILL BE CONSIDERED A HATE CRIME.

    MOVE ALONG,

    YOUR FRIENDS

    THE THOUGHT POLICE

    ReplyDelete
  37. THERE IS NOTHING TO SEE HERE.
    DISPERSE, GO TO YOUR HOMES AND AWAIT FURTHER INSTRUCTIONS.

    ReplyDelete

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