Thursday, May 29, 2008

Leucadia Streetscape Workshop Reactions

Thursday night's Leucadia Stretscape Workshop was a packed house at city hall. It was great to see Leucadia's finest representing.

The designers presented 3 different concepts.

Design #1 Coast highway roundabouts and moving center median and replacing tree canopy.
Design #2 Coast highway stoplights and moving center median and replacing tree canopy.
Design #3 Coast highway roundabouts and preservation of existing tree canopy.

Of course there were many different details but that is them in a nutshell.

You are probably asking yourself, why move the center median? Yeah, me too.

The thing that really stuck with me when I walked out of there is just how selfish and evil the NCTD really is. The easiest and best way to make the roundabouts work would require the NCTD to give us 9 feet of their property. But nooooo, the NCTD values their dirt and weeds far too much. How dare we encroach on NCTD's scorched earth?

So now the roundabouts have to be moved 9 feet to the west which would require taking out and purchasing corners of private property on the business corridor. This of course, is going to cause a lot of drama and add a ton of cost to the streetscape project.

What do you think?

*The city website does not have the streetscape plan online yet.
City of Encinitas website,


  1. That looks like a loaded set. The best asset along the highway are the trees. There is really only one option.

    Why wasn't there a streetlights and keep the trees option?

  2. Loaded set, my ass. Lets see how the people vote.

    If you mean signals, people will not like that because it would look like LA.

    Even the traffic consultant said wide roads and signals is the Carlsbad alternative.

    If you like that, move to LA!

    Roundabouts with a tree canopy either all new or some old. Both would be good.

    The consultants and staff are going a wonderful job.

    Even more impressive are the public who are attending. cheers to your community spirit!

  3. "Lets see how the people vote."

    Good idea if there is more than one real option. The people should have the chance to pick the Solana Beach option. Why not let people vote on signals and medians?

    What are you afraid of?

  4. My list did not synch up with the presentation, #1 and #3 were backwards in meaning. It's option #3 that leaves the most trees and #1 that robs them. I changed the post, sorry about that.

  5. The Solana Beach option is essentially medians and lights, which is presented as an option.

    I think you need to start attending the workshops if you want to comment intelligently.

    What are you talking about?

    What do you like the 50 mph cars and the signals? If so, go to the workshop and get involved.

    What I am hearing from the overwhelming majority is people want cars to travel at 25 mph, have a big canopy and nice landscaping, parking for businesses, walkways, and bike lanes.

    The Design Team is doing a fantastic job of listening to the public and designing options that reflect the values of the community.

    No matter what is designed, not everyone be be pleased but you can please a majority of the citizens.

    So far I am hearing an overwhelming uniform message from the residents.

    Great Job to all attending and working on the workshops and working to better Leucadia.

  6. 9:22-

    Do you mean the Eucs that are about at the end of their life cycle?

    Currently, it looks like a wasteland. I think get the best fundamental design and then start planting trees. In 5 years, we will have the beginning of a very nice canopy.

  7. I loved many of the concepts presented but they made a major blunder when they photoshopped ugly high density housing over the Leucadia Glass building. I saw a lot of eye rolling over that. This is not a redevelopment project it's a streetscape.

  8. I think it would be cool to line the 101 with the same trees at Leucadia Roadside park.

    Euc's cause too much problems, are expensive to maintain.

  9. Go easy anon 7:06,

    These are the three options posted on THIS blog.

    Design #1 Coast highway roundabouts and moving center median and replacing tree canopy.
    Design #2 Coast highway stoplights and moving center median and replacing tree canopy.
    Design #3 Coast highway roundabouts and preservation of existing tree canopy

    Maybe you should read the blog before posting an aggressive comment.

  10. To I went,

    I would give the consultants some credit for putting in the high density housing in the background. We want to know what it is going to look like in the near future. It is good planning.

  11. How about bringing into the conversation of how Solana Beach dropped their tracks to ease congestion and nose.
    Why are these round abouts so popular? It seems cookie cutter the way every city is going this route. They seem to be too small of a circle to work properly and safely! This is my view and would like to know if I am alone on this!!!
    It seems obvious that if the city wants to slow traffic down then just change the speed limit!!
    I'll bet the cost for the signs are cheaper then roundabouts!

  12. What was the cost estimates for the 3 designs?

  13. All three concepts look pretty on paper but are a total trainwreck. Moving the center median is a joke. Purchasing private property with eminent domain is a joke. The nctd's refusal to give up 9 feet of dirt is a joke. The simple solution is too finish the sidewalks, put in nice streetlamps, paint in parking, crosswalks and bike lanes and be done with it.

  14. change isn't goodMay 30, 2008 9:50 AM

    I don't see what the problem is??? What's wrong with what we have now??? If you don't like weeds and dirt and lack of sidewalks, leave! Move to Carlsbad! I like it ugly! I like cheap rents and no sidewalks. Change isn't good!! And there is nothing wrong with a train that cuts through the city at 70+MPH leaving dust and pollution in it's wake. IF you are not happy here LEAVE! Move to Julian, if you want quiet . And besides, the city can't afford this project, it's all just pie-in-the-sky!

    This project destroys the character of Leucadia, keep it ugly!!

  15. Does anyone know the diameter of the roundabouts on Leucadia Blvd and Santa Fe? I ask because Mike Peltz said the roundabouts need to be 100 feet so the fire trucks can go through them. Can the fire trucks got trough the current roundabouts? 100 feet seems like overkill to me. If they were smaller we wouldn't have to worry about the right of way on the precious NCTD land and they wouldn't use any private property.
    I wish I'd asked this question last night, but I was feeling like the other shoe had dropped, if you know what I mean. The first three workshops were a nice little pipe dreams. The meeting last night was cold reality.

  16. I think going back and get the easements from NCTD is better and an easier path than shifting the project to the West.

    Just cause one person at NCTD says they don't want to give a small 9 foot easement, does not make it set in stone.

    Get our Council members involved, get the political will and go get the approval from NCTD.

  17. Plans 1 and 3 work for me. It would be great to have only 3 lanes and traffic moving at 25 mph. Now we need to pressure NCTD. Be sure to read Nanninga's take on the NCTD in this week's Coast News.

  18. Ok, I just measure the rounds on Leucadia Blvd and they are approx 50 feet in diameter.

  19. Mary,

    You just struck onto one of the reasons people were trying to get the city to think first before building. The problem was the see no evil attitude and, frankly, the attitude of many posters here that shoot at anyone who questions other's views.

    Good change is good. Bad change is bad. Change for change's sake is stupid when we live in a paradise.

  20. The roundabouts on Sante Fe and on Leucadia Blvd require the same 100 ft of right away.

    Not trying to be catty but having false information from other than an engineer and then having that information used as an arrow against the city is very unfair.

    Any roundabout anywhere in the city requires a minimum 100 ft right of way including those that are already built.

    easy on slaming the city, they want to do what the citizens want regarding streetscape.

    NCTD, now that's a different story.

  21. There are many pluses to the North Coast Hwy 101 StreetScape meeting last night.

    1 - We're getting serious attention. Thanks city!
    2 - Peltz accurately reported that the Tree Canopy was the public's first priorty.
    3 - Presentations and illustrations were very well done.
    4 - Endorsing the lower speed limit of 25 mph on 101 will make it safer and aid commerce.
    5 - Creative public involvement and a good survey paper was provided.

    I have reservations on certain items.
    * With all the talk of how roundabouts and single lanes facilitating even more traffic than two lanes (owing to the wasted hours/days of our lives spent at traffic lights), the meeting seemed to be firm on having 2 lanes south. Not one of the three designs had a single lane south. Doing so would bring the parking back up to the desired high 200's as well as discourage useless cut-though traffic and preserve 99%t of our median trees.

    * Feels like someone is hell-bent on removing our remaining canopy, not preserving it. Options one and two remove our canopy for at least 30 years.

    * "Most of the median trees are at the end of their life cycle anyway" is being harped on at these meetings. That is so false. Anyone can take a casual count and see the younger trees are by far more plentiful than the largest and oldest ones in the median on the Hwy. And tallest does not necessarily mean oldest. I've grown Eukes and in 15 years some are as tall as the tallest. Circumference better reveals a Euke's age. The vast majority of median trees are under 30 years old and many of the full grown Eukes are NOT at the end of their life cycle (especially since NCTD's recent fell). The city and People for Trees have done much plating alongthe area of planting new trees here.

    * As someone in the audience pointed out, we're not being give another option of ONE LANE SOUTH and I think we should push for that. OLS would preserve most of our median trees.

    * Early on in this process I asked around to find out WHO'S idea it was to move the median? (which of course removes our canopy). I never got a straight answer and it was presented as "merely an option being considered". I think it could be more than that. So... just in case it is someone's orchestrated purpose to sacrifice Leucadia's canopy and the StreetScape is a means to do that, I just wanted to add my two (conpiracy theory) bits.

  22. It took me a while last night to get my mind around the 2 lanes south, one north, 25 mph, roundabouts, etc. But after hearing the reasoning, I'm really exciting about it. BUT NO TRAFFIC LIGHTS and let's push to get NCTD to give us a few feet. Many thanks to everyone involved in the effort to now.
    Potential for a great remodel of roadside park, much better walking neighborhood, hopefully much less commuter traffic. Push the carlsbad cut throughs out to the 5!

  23. I'm with you Fred. Consider one of the more desirable communities around, Del Mar. 101 narrows to one lane in each direction on each end of town. There really is no need for 2 lanes South, except that the council will have to swallow a bitter pill in that they will be intentionally constricting traffic flow when the goals of the general plan tell them otherwise.

    Our existing tree canopy is the single most sacred feature in Leucadia, why mess with it?

  24. I feel #3 was the only option we must leave the trees and plant a mix of new trees including Eukes. When this project if ever done is done I don't want to wonder where I'm living and since the project is still in the design phase with designers that listen we can work to get the project we want. The traffic can be slowed down lanes can be narrowed bulbouts can be added so one can safely turn. Much of what was purposed was good its just time for pencils and erasers.

  25. Anon 3:19- False information?!!? I measured the roundabout with a measuring tape, the same thing any "engineer" would do. Big wow. I was at the meeting, and saw a diagram that showed a roundabout circle that was 100 feet wide, OK? "From curb to curb" is what Mike Peltz said. He did not say "right of way".

    All I'm suggesting is, if the diameter was less than 100 feet, we wouldn't have to deal with NCTD or any biz owners whose property would be affected.

  26. The NCTD is the problem. Their razed earth policy creates pollution -- dust and flooding. The City isn't pressuring them to do the right thing by planting and maintaining an attractive corridor -- just look at San Juan Capistrano. Therefore, the City could sue the NCTD for nuisance and failure to maintain property so that NCTD would have to pay for City services spent in dust removal and flooding abatement. This is similar to the lawsuits cities have filed against mortgage companies with foreclosures that don't maintain their properties, costing cities money to keep drug users out and to demolish. Of course, this means that Stocks would have to step up to the plate and bite the gift horse -- so not happenin!

  27. why can't NCTD just grant an easement for the nine feet? Are the roundabouts two lanes or one lane? Seems that they could be one lane and wouldn't need NCTD property. I wasn't there so I don't know what was proposed, but I live on Devonshire and our little bitty roundabout would easily fit on 101 without needing any property from NCTD.

  28. why can't we take nctd property through eminent domain? They seem to use it when they want some-one's property.

  29. Ok I checked out Bob Nanninga's editorial in the Coast News as suggested and I suggest NCTD and anyone interested give it serious consideration!!
    One more reason I support Bob for city council!!

  30. So what's up with Maggie's election violations???
    Why aren't the blogs and the local newspapers reporting this??
    Encinitas residents check this out!

  31. Who cares? Maggie is not going to getting reelected.

  32. The roundabouts are 100 feet in diameter because they will be double lanes around the center, not a single lane as with the existing roundabouts. Otherwise the present 4-lane Highway 101 will be constricted to 2 lanes.

    The city, led by Jerome Stocks, is not being honest here. The real purpose of roundabouts is to disguise their true purpose, which is to mitigate increased traffic. No different than stoplights or stop signs, although much of the public thinks differently.

    The city has big plans for increased development and density along the Leucadia 101 corridor and Santa Fe Drive. When the council recently approved $20,000 for a topgraphic survey along Santa Fe from I-5 to El Camino Real, guess how much width they requested for the roundabouts? That's right, 100 feet! The roundabouts won't be the pocket roundabout now on Santa Fe at Rubenstein.

  33. Is "mikea" above Mike Andreen restarting his dirty campaign against Maggie? It was Jerome Stocks who got caught with the serious campaign violation and had to cough up the unreported money. He would never have reported it otherwise.

    If Maggie chooses to run, let's all remember that she is the incumbent and received the highest number of votes in the last election, even beating Stocks. She won't be easy to defeat. In fact it was Mike Andreen, with the collusion of Jerome Stocks, who helped to reelect her with their nasty tricks.

  34. I'm in agreement with anon 9:20 this is all a matter of traffic mitigation in preparation for infill redevelopment.

    Let's not forget this is coming at the end of the Leucadia Redevelopment District talk that recently transpired.

  35. Please don't get suckered by Jerome Stocks and don't think Houlihan has enough of a clue to watch out for us.

  36. Re: 9:48

    Little correction. I believe Maggie recieved the most votes out of all Encinitas Council elections so far.

  37. Bob- How can you say that?

    the current road conditions are causing a blighted area.

    A fixed road will improve the walkability, looks and business envirnment of the area.

    I know there are the small fraction of Leucadia that want to keep it ugly and unsafe. I just didn't think you were one of them?

  38. I'm all for fixing the roads. Absolutely! HWY 101 is completely overburdened, the infrustructure is early 20th century, and population pressures so 21st century.

    An upgrade is needed.

    And just as I agreed with Anon 9:20in regards to his statements
    "The real purpose of roundabouts is to disguise their true purpose, which is to mitigate increased traffic. No different than stoplights or stop signs, although much of the public thinks differently" and "The city has big plans for increased development and density along the Leucadia 101 corridor..."

    I also agree with your post "A fixed road will improve the walkability, looks and business envirnment of the area."

    I'm just not sure roundabouts are the answer.

    A pedistrian and bicycle friendly Leucadia 101, beneath a healthy tree canopy is the ideal outcome.

    That and a buried rail corridor.

  39. I also wonder why the roundabouts are so popular? And yes, it does seem to be flagrantly "cookie cutter" the way every city is going this route. Previous poster, absolutely: "they seem to be too small of a circle to work properly and safely" I agree.

    Slowing down the speed limit seems like an obvious fix to me, as well.

    If state law prevents reducing the speed limit, then put in more stop signs, as in Del Mar. And yes, the top priority should be restoring the canopy.

    These roundabouts present lots of challenges. They are not proven, yet, on Leucadia Blvd, or Santa Fe, as far as traffic surveys go. Lets wait to see what happens after racetrack season this year, at least.

    Roundabouts do seem intended to also be "make-work" projects for local contractors.

    During rush hour, the traffic is already slow on North 101. Streetscape does not have to mean redevelopment. Also, it seems as though we could have some parts of the highway where it narrows to one lane, in order to make room for u-turn lanes. That would also slow traffic. You are never going to eliminate all "cut through" traffic on a major highway. It can be slowed down, but that isn't the main problem during rush hour. Traffic enforcement of the speed limit we now have would help.

  40. Houlihan's lack of insight at the streetscape workshop the other night is evidence that she is out of touch with the rules of the NCTD and the railroads. It matters not that she receives many votes from the public, her interrupting the consultant(of which she authorized payment) was nothing more than grandstanding. She has never done anything of value for Leucadia nor will she ever. She is aligned with the keep Leucadia ugly crowd. And they were very evident at the meeting. IF you can't see that Leucadia is broken and needs to be fixed then you are part of the problem and will never be part of the cure.

  41. Maggie wasn't the only one asking questions. And she certainly wasn't "interrupting". What about that woman in the front row who wouldn't shut up? As for the NCTD, it seems we're ALL "out of touch" with their so-called rules. Oh, so you could tell there was a "keep Leucadia ugly" crowd there, eh?

    As usual, strong words from someone who is hiding behind their laptop. Pity.

  42. Anon10:14- Why is it that T.Barth did not interrupt the consultants?? Why is it that she sat there and kept her mouth shut?? Perhaps she wasn't grandstanding and playing to her public.
    AS for the lady in the front row, where was she for the first 2 workshops, it was like she was just finding out that Leucadia has problems. Duhh!!

    AS for my anonymity, over half of the posts here are anonymous, yet you don't attack them...pity.


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