Thursday, September 18, 2008

Streetscape Reaction

Here is the North County Times article about last nights Streetscape discussion at the Planning Comission:ENCINITAS: Consultants explain streetscape alternatives

Two of the alternatives call for as many as five roundabouts to be installed along the highway at El Portal, Jupiter, Grandview, Sea Bluff and La Costa Avenue.

The idea of building roundabouts didn't go over well with some community members, however. Building them to calm traffic would be foolish, said Rick and Kathy Smith, who own Leucadia Glass on Coast Highway.


The Smiths are being harshly criticized for being anti-roundabout but what the newspaper fails to mention is that the Smiths will lose their building to eminent domain to make room for the roundabout. This is because nobody in this town has the savvy to convince the NCTD to surrender 9 feet of crappy wasteland dirt for the roundabout thus leaving a longtime small business and outstanding member of the community to lose everything. No good deed goes unpunished eh?

31 comments:

  1. You dont need to take private property for the roundabouts. The designer shouldn't have even gone there.

    The easy solution will be to get the 9 foot easements from NCTD.

    No one is supporting taking private property.

    With that said, the owners on corners should relax and support the project with easements from NCTD.

    Put in the all way stops now, and plan the roundabouts for the future without taking private property.


    Problem solved.

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  2. I'm currently trying to clarify the eminent domain issue at the Leucadia Glass location. If anyone has information please share. One of the workshops at city hall made a point to show photos of Leucadia Glass and said something like, "Hopefully the owner of this building will cooperate ."

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  3. Actually JP-

    At Leucadia Glass, the Right of way is huge. That location definitely has enough right of way without even being close to private property.

    Maybe you were thinking of Grandview?

    Either way, private property is not needed. Go to the Board, and Get the easements from NCTD. Hell Jerome is the chair of the planning committee; we should easily be able to get the easements.

    Problem solved. Please move forward to the next step.

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  4. STREETSCAPE SHOULD BE

    sidewalks
    street lamps
    more trees
    flowers
    benches
    new pavement for 101
    lower speed limit
    enforce new speed limit
    flashing pedestrian crossings like Del Mar
    bikes lanes
    more parking

    NO ROUNDABOUTS

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  5. Henry-

    STREETSCAPE SHOULD BE:

    ROUNDABOUTS
    sidewalks
    street lamps
    more trees
    flowers
    benches
    new pavement for 101
    lower speed limit
    enforce new speed limit
    flashing pedestrian crossings like Del Mar
    bikes lanes
    more parking

    No signals.

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  6. Who "owns" NCTD anyway? Who there said "No" to giving up 9 feet of their scorched earth? Is there no power above NCTD that can stop them from being bullies on this and other health / safety issues?

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  7. El Portal is one if not the widest mouth of a street anywhere on 101. You cannot cross the street on foot without some car dancing with you making a turn. I can't imagine "not enough room" for a roundabout there. I did hear at the workshops that one of the businesses on the corners of Grandview street might lose some of their property through eminent domain, should the railroad not give us 9 feet for a roundabout. I also saw two or three photoshoped pics of Leucadia Glass as an example and I think that when they were talking about "if the owner will comply" they were merely talking about the art they used on the building itself, - not taking their property for a roundabout. I think what they meant was "If the owner likes our suggesions for the building and re-facade's it for a streetscape it could look like this." It's probably all on tape and comes through clearer.

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  8. Please do not change anything and we'll promise never to complain anymore.

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  9. 5:08

    I don't get it.

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  10. Beware of roundabouts. The are no level-of-service standards for roundabouts. That means that no matter how many cars back up or how long it takes to get through the roundabout, the level of service always remain at "A."

    Abracadabra! Traffic mitigated, no matter how bad the traffic gets. Stop signs and stoplights have level-of-service standards. So intersections can rapidly deteriorate to "D" or lower.

    Roundabouts are about the city and developers "mitigating" traffic. This is why the city is planning 5 roundabouts for the short stretch of Santa Fe Drive from Rubenstein to Regal Road for the Scripps Hospital expansion and the planned Hall property park.

    Even with bumper to bumper gridlock, the traffic is magically mitigated.

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  11. If there is no level of service, why do you say it is at an "A"? Doesn't make sense. I like the roundabout by Scripps Hospital. Have never seen any type of congestion there. If there was a signal there it would have caused congestion and backed up traffic on the side streets blocking the residential driveways and the speed of traffic would have still been 45 mph+. Put them in on 101 and plant Euc's or Torreys in the middle. That would be cool. With stop signs on 101 I would think the road would have to still be 4 lanes and there would be no room for bike lanes. The stop signs at Marcheta suck big time. I would rather J walk than cross there. Nobody looks for peds. And making a left turn onto 101 from the side street is no picnic. The cars on 101 never even look. I was at all the workshops, the guy from Leucadia Glass was huffing and puffing because everyone liked the roundabout idea. He was steamed that nobody agreed with him. I think I even saw him storm out of the meeting. Oh well, nothing good ever happens in Leucadia because nobody wants change. If it changed they couldn't complain anymore. Too bad.

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  12. Anon 9:34 - the roundabout on Santa Fe does back up, the primary flow is east/west, so the north/south flow does have to wait. Put in the Hall complex and Scripps doubling its size + a 68,000 sq. ft. medical office building, and yes, you will see substantial back up. There is no national standard for roundabouts -- therefore any LOS analysis is bogus. The national Highway Capcaity Manual, 2000, the lastest one available, states no LOS standards. So it is a free for all for developers -- if there are no standards then it must operate at a LOS A -- simply because there is no comparison to look at and to prove different would cost a bundle in studies. The Santa Fe roundabout is the smallest type of roundabout and it does create traffic delays now. When it was a two way stop, the delay was less for north/south traffic. The way this City wants to implement roundabouts is idiotic -- five roundabouts on Santa Fe from the existing one and ending at Regal Rd. The rest of the world have had roundabouts for decades, but I have never seen 5 roundabouts in 1/4 mile space. Lunacy. This is what Scripps and the City are proposing.

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  13. I agree. The Level of Service standard is a joke. Completely subjective.

    If you want to experience roundabouts go walk through them and drive through them and you will see how good they are for the community.

    All of the roundabouts in Encinitas work great. Roundabout on our mainstreet will calm traffic and make it much more walkable. They will work great just like Bird Rock works great and is loved by its residents. Just like the Roundabouts on Leucadia Blvd. and Sante Fe work great and are love by the 90% community. Just like roundabouts work great in hundreds of locations around the state and country and are loved by their community. That is why they are replacing there failed predecessors traffic signals in many locations.

    Just because a couple of guys don't like change. Does not mean our community should not better itself with unique and funk changes.

    I am all for roundabouts and I love the current direction of the Streetscape plan.

    If you have any feeling whether positive or negative let them be known at the workshops or forever hold your piece.

    I can't wait for the Changes. That road is a former canopy roadway which is now a lifeless deathtrap.

    Godspeed Roundabouts and future tunneling tree canopy!

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  14. Carfiff loves roundaboutsSeptember 19, 2008 11:15 PM

    That’s BS 10:50-

    I live near the roundabout at Sante Fe and I never experience a wait of more than 10 seconds. Much better than two minutes or more if there was a traffic signal. I went and experienced the 5 roundabouts in place in Birdrock La Jolla all within ½ mile they all work great and the community love them.

    You people who refuse to accept reality are getting really old and lame.

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  15. I have also driven the roundabouts in La Jolla, and they are not a panacea. At least stop signs give pedestrians a fighting chance, in a roundabout most drivers are so disoriented they don't even notice the pedestrians trying to cross. As for businesses, when drivers have to negotiate chicanes they aren't noticing your lovely establishment and flasing signs. La Jolla Blvd. has been ruined, it couldn't be more claustrophobic and tacky. All because of some developer. You want roundabouts -- move where they already exist and let us have our straight normal streets.

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  16. From the La Jolla Light: "Bird Rock's months-long construction included utilities work as well as the roundabouts, and it definitely took its toll on local businesses. Some, such as jeweler Argento, have gone out of business, and others, such as Blue The Salon, are being forced to relocate." Get ready merchants.

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  17. lovin living in LeucadiaSeptember 19, 2008 11:58 PM

    Anon 11:23 - Funny.

    The Bird Rock Hwy 101 new streetscape easily handles more traffic than Leucadia's Hwy 101 and the Birdrock residents and business owners love it.

    Sure some minor disturbance during construction but now the community has a main street they can enjoy for decades or centuries.

    Bird Rock no longer has cars and motorcyles traveling and crashing at 90 mph and killing our children like Justin.

    Birdrock took care of their problem. Will Leucadia and Encinitas be smart enough to take care of their problem?

    I sure hope so.... because without the improvements property values, life, and business revenues will drop.

    With the new streetscape the quality of life and property values will soar.

    Which would you prefer?

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  18. I have walked through all the roundabout in Encinitas.

    They are far more safe and enjoyable to walk through than any other intersection; I sure hope the City puts in roundabouts on any future street improvement.

    Lets promote safe street and people walking safely enjoying their community.

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  19. Roundabouts not only keep cars from idling at stop signs/lights making less emissions to the environment, they slow traffic, provide safer crossings for pedestrians and eliminate the the need for costly and unsightly stop lights. Why not get used to them?

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  20. Who is the propagandist that thinks stop signs are expensive. Try roundabouts. Leucadia blvd cost 2 million. How much did Santa Fe cost? How much did bird rock cost?

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  21. I believe Anon 2:05am is implying that “stop lights” (traffic signals) are expensive and they also have high ongoing operational and energy costs. In all, they tend to be unsafe, ugly, expensive, and they don't work very well.

    Roundabouts are much better.

    The City should plan for roundabouts in the long run. For now, put in all way Stop signs along the roadway and as money becomes available convert the all way stops to Roundabouts as the Community sees fit.

    The money is well spent. The number one complaint citizens have in our City is the fast unsafe traffic and non walkable roads. Roundabouts greatly improve that problem.

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  22. I walk the Santa Fe Dr. roundabout and as a pedestrian I find it LESS safe than a standard four way stop. As another poster mentioned, the drivers are so wrapped up in watching for other cars in the roundabout that they seem startled to see to see a pedestrian crossing the street as they exit the roundabout.The pedestrian crossings are too close to the roundabout.

    We recently vacationed in Colorado, which has got roundabout fever. They even use them for freeway off-ramps and on-ramps. We observed the traffic back up for about 1/2 mile on the freeway every morning in Glenwood Springs as folks negotiated a roundabout to exit the freeway. Those coming from a side street at 90 degrees to the freeway entered the roundabout first, so that the cars leaving the freeway had to make these kamikaze-type moves to get in (kinda like the current freeway exit for eastbound traffic at Santa Fe. Dr)
    There are situations where the roundabouts work (low-moderate traffic volumes from all directions), but they are not a cure-all. The idea of 5 of them along Santa Fe Dr. in such a short distance is mind boggling. As for Leucadia, when the traffic is heavy on 101, I think that those exiting from the sidestreets will find themselves waiting a long time to get into the roundabouts.

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  23. Stop signs will run about $75k for each intersection. First you have to get special signs that repel paint and surf stickers they tend to attract. Next you have to paint new lines and verbiage on the ground. My suggestion would is to be forward thinking like many here and just print ALTO so we can all get accustomed to it. Next would be to put up a new sign farther back warning of the new sign farther ahead. Maybe with a nice blinking light to warn those busy peeling the back off their stickers. Next would be 5 days alloted for each sign to be installed by city workers. (That's another thread) And finally the 400 billable hours the city attorney would charge for responding to surfrider complaints and threats. But hey that still leaves $4 mil for the trees. And I know personally that the trees around my house could live on $1mil just fine.
    PUT STOP SIGNS IN! Leucadia is a historic stretch and needs to be protected from all you Europe lovin nuts.

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  24. I don't believe biped walked the roundabouts at all.

    Anyone who has walked through a roundabout could not argue that they are not safer for Pedestrian.

    YOu only need to walk 14 feet across traffic to safety verses 50 foot sprint through speeding cars.

    My bet is Biped drives a Hummer.

    Biped is pure BS.

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  25. Nemo is proof that many Americans are completely clueless.

    I bet he thinks we can turn Iraq into a democracy and the $600,000,000,000 and growing with no end in site is money well spent.

    Nemo is prime example of the pure uneducated American at its worse.

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  26. I love it when the anons flame -- they (or is it just one person) can't debate someone's opinion with facts in a logical manner. Probably because they are the "uneducated, clueless, idiots, morons, full of BS" --

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  27. anon 508pm.... Please do not change anything and we'll promise never to complain anymore.

    September 19, 2008 5:08 PM

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    ROUNDABOUTS
    STREETSCAPE

    27 comments so far (including mine)

    For roundabouts - 11
    Against roundabouts - 8
    Neither for or against - 8

    I hope we can save the eucalyptus canopy, but that should not be the determining factor... trees can grow back.


    Henry has it right....

    STREETSCAPE
    sidewalks
    street lamps
    more trees
    flowers
    benches
    new pavement for 101
    lower speed limit
    enforce new speed limit
    flashing pedestrian crossings like Del Mar
    bikes lanes
    more parking

    No signals.


    Invest in Leucadia!

    ReplyDelete
  28. Let's see I oppose spending $4 million (Which includes MY money) on roundabouts and the best comeback from you is Iraq. Great example and just really proves your point as to superiority. Keep at it. I believe any improvement in this city costing over $1 MILLION SHOULD BE VOTED ON BY THE ELECTORATE. US! It's our money (ie. those of us with real jobs) who will pay for this.

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  29. biped to anon 10:35September 20, 2008 1:09 PM

    Well, I do walk across the streets that surround the roundabout (where the pedestrian crossing lines are). If you think crossing a roundabout entails dashing to the center island and then dashing acoss the street, I suggest that you get out of your vehicle and actually walk around (I know, it's a challenge in Encinitas). Park near the hospital and try crossing Santa Fe Dr. in the afternoon near the roundabout.

    Hummers are a bummer.

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  30. We can have the trees and the round-abouts as well as sidewalks Alt #3 included all the above. Also with ALT #3 the city can replant start planting trees in the median asap. As far as the Smiths losing their building that's B.S. the intersection at El Portal is huge no buildings will be removed. Attend the public workshop on Oct.1st at the library and speak your peace the project is still in design phase. I'll be there because I don't want Leucada to look like Birdrock.

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  31. I want Leucadia to Look like Leucadia with large canopy trees. I want the road infrastructure, bike lanes, parking and nice sidewalks to work as well as Birdrock.... I would like Leucadia to be as quiet as Birdrock now is with the reduce traffic noise.

    Their community is now much more quiet, peaceful and walkable now with the improvements.

    As for walking in a roundabout. You can peacefully stroll 15 feet to the median in one movement with cars approaching at 20mph, wait if needed and peacefully stroll the next 15 feet to the other side.

    Without it, you need to sprint 50 feet or more and risk your life by the 40mph traffic or faster.

    Biped has a twisted sense of reality. Most of us who really walk through the roundabouts now how great roundabouts really are.

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