Friday, November 21, 2008

Latest Hall Park Rumor, a private club for organized sports leagues?

So, the latest rumor swirling around town is that not only will the $75 million dollar Hall Park be primarily geared towards organized soccer leagues, the fields will be fenced off with locked gates during off days.

Imagine a town with a population of 63,000 funding a $75 million dollar park for the exclusive use of high profit soccer leagues based in Carlsbad.

Want to take your kids to the Hall Park to play a little ball in the afternoon? You better wait until the weekend, sign your kids up for a fee and dress them in cute little expensive uniforms because you ain't playing for free bub.

But remember, you can't criticize any aspect of the Hall Park because that makes you a NIMBY who hates children.



  1. If this turns out to be true i'm putting up the address of Dalager and Stocks, I know where they live and will gladly let the people have their say, but its probably not true. That just wouldn't fly.

  2. The only rumor that is true is that Carlsbad has better soccer players than Encinitas.

  3. Cardiff is safe and bets the money is goneNovember 22, 2008 12:09 AM

    Let’s talk facts.

    The City will not have shit for any Hall project, because all of the money is going to the huge raises council gave all of staff this last year, plus the enormous pension increase.

    There is no money for any projects. Plus Council will be forced to cut some staff at City Hall.

    There is enough deadwood there, to cut about ½ the staff.

    Face it. All your tax dollars go to paying for the City welfare cases called staff.

    If you don't believe it, go look at the budget yourself.

    Please don't tell me, you don't understand budgets or numbers because you'll sound just as stupid as all those subprime mortgagees or a Realtor.

  4. I couldn't agree more. When are the people going to wake up and see that those in charge of our tax dollars (gov employees) are making sure that their pockets are full first (for life) before spending our money with frugality.

  5. The National Recreation & Parks Association calls for 1 soccer field per 10,000 people. We already have 5 soccer fields, so we actually only need one or two more. Leave Hall Park out of the equation and build a field wherever the next park parcel is acquired, or create joint-use agreements with existing elementary schools. The Hall property should be passive, as the expanded hospital project is going to overload the roads on its own.

  6. Let each city accommodate their own sports teams. Carlsbad has been overstepping their bounds ever since La Costa was built. Ever wonder why the Leucadia Water District building is in Carlsbad? Because that property used to be Leucadia, as was all the property from La Costa Blvd. to Leucadia Blvd. along El Camino Real, before Carlsbad took it!

  7. It is the plan to fence off the soccer fields and lock them as is done at Cardiff Sports Park on Lake.
    Not only, as Park and Rec. stated,
    will the unorganized public not be able to use the fields because the active sports organizations will book them, but they,(80%) will be fenced and locked for four months of the year, (in rotation), unused, to replenish the grass fields.
    This is not a Community Park for all. And there is not anything that can be done, except get involved with the Coastal Commission hearing on the Hall property coming up.
    All told the entities that are opposed to the Special Use park are SANDAG, Public Surveys, Public Comments, The Planning Dept, two out of three Council Members, the Godbe Survey, the homeowners in the Cardiff that are scared of s traffic 90 ft.lights and quality of life changes, the public that was promised that their input for a community park would be considered and those that just want a Community Park.
    The Coastal Commission meeting is important.

  8. Yea I heard that to I also heard that they're going to name each field, Stocks Field, Bond Field, Dalager Field, Mayors Field and BDS Field.

  9. The people who live near the park didn't do enough to make sure Stocks and Bond lost their seats. These are people with expensive houses - they could have funded glossy flyers and mailers. But they did not. All you have to do is look at campaign donations to see they didn't do enough. Just placing a sign is not enough. They needed to get Collier elected, as she was the only candidate other than Maggie Houlihan who was clear about a reasonable park development.

    Follow the money:
    - Sports Leagues + Carlsbad spent money on this.
    - Hall property neighborhood did not. Each person should have been giving $250 to Collier and Houlihan. they have to rely on the Coastal Commish and their lawyers - which will cost a lot more than $250 per person!

  10. Maybe they didn't want Collier. Did you ever think of that. Maybe Collier was stuffed down our throats and we choose Bob or someone else. Not the incumbants, except Maggie. Collier is nice but not a leader.

  11. Yeah, lets' make it a passive park so Cardiff locals can have a nice yard at our expense.

    This will be a wonderful shared use space for everyone if people were not so selfish.

  12. 9:08 gets it. the cardiff and old encinintas residents should have put their money where their mouth is.

    Now you are stuck with the results.

    4 more years of council giving all the money to employees and no positive results for our town.

  13. OK Folks: What should we have done-all of you Monday morning quarterbacks? Where were all of your donations to help? God, I am sick of you whiners. This park was purchased by Lease Revenye Bonds and cannot be a Private Club. It will be fought, tooth and nail. You think the results would have changed with THIS council? A lawsuit is on its way. So pony up or shut the f up. Make a differnece for once and get over Collier She didn't get elcted. Sorry about that. Neither did Bob. So, we have the same Council. Next time, get a candidate that can speak up and get the mesage across without being a BOB.

  14. The best use for the hall property would be to import 1000 gay romanian goats and store them there. At least you won't have to cut the grass and they won't multiply.

  15. The best use of the hall property, would be to sell part of it and buy some park property in another location. Its better to spread out smaller parks.

    Put it to a vote of the people.

  16. Last poster- That WIL NOT HAPPEN. These soccer people want their Sports Park. And, the three unwise men will let them have it. Even the Planning Commission couldn't talk them out of it. Get real. Any other ideas that might really work?

  17. Watch What You Wish ForNovember 22, 2008 2:16 PM

    Citizens for Quality of Life gave the city notice that it will file suit in the California Superior Court under CEQA to chanllenge the approval of the Hall Project.

    If people had been willing to compromise this would not have happened. But the bully boys and the Encinitas Soccer League didn't care.

    The Encinitas Soccer League will get what they deserve....nothing.

    And the taxpayers will get the bill.

    So much for fiscal conservatives...Stocks, Dalager & Bond.

  18. Now conerned citizens: Pony up to help with the CQL LAWSUIT. Don't make all of the Cardiff people pay for it. If you do, don't expect any help from on your streetcape or anything else.

  19. Some of the posters above have not followed the process. On October 22nd the city council with a 3 to 2 vote approved the Hall project when it upheld the appeal of its own Parks and Rec Department and overturned the denial of the project by the Planning Commission. This was done before the election.

    Any change of the council members would have come too late to have affected that vote. The Coastal Commission appeal and a lawsuit against the city have been filed. Now the legal system will take over.

    The problem of how the project will be paid for is yet to be considered. It is very problematic. I don't think Dan Dalager and Co. have the foggiest idea about how they will do this. I think they expect a financial miracle. It doesn't look like the world economic crisis will give us that. A stabilization fund? What is Dan smoking?

  20. Yes, a community park with three fields would probabally have been built by now.
    All that money wasted is a shame.
    All that was necessary was a compromise.
    But no. We now have no fields or any public use and huge interest payments that we are funding for access to nothing.
    Unfortunately, I and many others will put money and energy into stopping this current plan. This is not a waste of time and money. If this effort to have a community park fails, I will know that the money and effort is for a noble cause. To offer something good for all the citizens is Encinitas, not just the minority of organized sports supporters and to maintain the character of our beloved beach community. I do not wish to sit and do nothing while our beach area morphs into an unpleasant, 90 ft. Pole lit, overcrowded home of the Irvine-mentalityed Special Use Sports crowd.

  21. I agree. At least the court actions will hang it up for years.

  22. The Hall property has sat idle now for six years, while we pay interest on bonds used to purchase the land. Open up the land and let us use it as is. We can scratch out a ballfield and a soccer field and play in the dirt, just like kids do. We can park our cars in the dirt -- I don't think this will harm our tires. We can rent the land to a circus, or the Cirque du Soleil. We could install a driving range real cheap. Why let the land sit idle while the attorneys fight it out. Plant some native flowers so at least the land doesn't look blighted.

  23. The voters have spoken.

    Their will is for a sports park. I think there should be no parking at all and everyone should have to walk to the park.

  24. nothing wrong with open land. its called open space.

  25. Follow the ProcessNovember 22, 2008 7:42 PM

    The EIR was complete months ago but the boys didn't want this issue resolved that far before the election....they needed a wedge issue.

    With the cooperation of the City Manager and other city staffers, it was brought forward just prior to the election to coincide with the "Go Long for Stocks and Bond" flyer.

    Politically motivated pure and simple.

    For the way.

  26. Jerome is back blogging at red county again.

  27. 10:34

    Chances are, they'd get married and adopt.

  28. 10:34

    Chances are, they'd get married and adopt.

  29. 7:42-

    We are not stupid.

    The employees received what they want, 14% more pay, and huge pension increase (30% of your highest paying year- FOREVER), and no work because there is no more money to complete any projects and there is no development.

    Life is a cake walk at City Hall. We might as well only work 4 or 3 days a week. There's really nothing to do anyway.

  30. There is already about 17 million set aside for the Hall Property. I don't know if they will have to use it for the lawsuit, but I do know it is there right now. Watch out for who gets the contracts for the infrastructure. Remember Doug Long is a plummer. The Parks and Rec. Commission did not get to weigh in on this Park. Is there a connection so that Long will not have to recuse himself when it comes time for bidding the contract. That kind of contract could make Mr. Long a very wealthy man. Was this thought of? WHo know? Nothing would surprise me with this Park.

  31. $17 million was before the settlement for the lawsuite over the kid that was killed because the conditions on Sante Fe

    The City didn't disclose what that has cost yet, but I'm sure its at least $5 million.

    The remainder will be taken from the near future lawsuits from the dangerous conditions at the Leucadia Railroad crossing, and lawsuits over the Hall EIR.

    The money is gone. Nothing will get built.

  32. the City has done so much wrong and they continue to ignore the dangerous conditions around town. all of our future money will be going to lawsuites.

    Pure shame.

  33. There is not $17 million set aside for the Hall property. The budget information claims about half of that amount. Yet $2 million of the Hall fund was shifted in the current fiscal year to cover holes in other parts of the budget.

    In 2006 the city borrowed $20 million to finish building the library because it had run out of money. Jerome Stock likes to trumpet the excellent financial condition of the city. But this is all built on borrowed money. It is not the best place to be with falling income and rising expenses.

    The city doesn't have the money to build the sports complex. Will Stocks, Bond, and Dalager attempt to use Lease Revenue Bonds to borrow more money? The city borrowed $43 million in the last 7 years, which will cost $85 million to repay. Will the three financial feather weights burden us with an additional $100 million in debt without voter approval of a tax increase?

    I don't think the election was a referendum on the sport complex. The council has always been afraid to put the question to a direct vote of the citizens. The vote would be a simple Yes or No on a $100 million sports complex.

    Let us decide. The three men will never agree to it.

  34. You better be careful playing on the existing surface. This was a greenhouse using who knows what pesticides over the years. DDT for one. Maybe they know this and are afraid to let development start knowing that the longer we wait people will forget who is responsible.
    How many are for selling or trading part of the property for development so as to acquire parkland in other parts of the city? Could this ease concerns about the park being so vast? Or too much traffic? Or entries to the park?

  35. No can do poster above. This money was spent to develop a Park. It cannot be sold or you will see so many lawsuits it will backrupt this City. Compromise between the soccer people and the rest of the City (except the 3 unwise men) is the only way this can be a win-win.

  36. In the meantime, how 'bout some seed bombs!

  37. Naw, Doug wouldn't plumb the park. But I would keep an eye on him if he suddently has 40 acres of that phoney grass available to sell - (like the stuff that looks great in front of his shop.)

  38. I agree with JP's original post on this. We put out fliers and had a sign for Rachelle and Bob. We put forth effort and attended all but the Olivenhain forum.

    I was sad that Stocks and Bond got re-elected. They count on not needing a majority, just a plurality, to win. Then they can "gang up" with Dan, and cram unwise decisions down our throats.

    I hope that Citizens for Quality of Life bring up the lack of checks and balances. Our Local government has no separation of powers between the executive, legislative and judicial branches. This is especially true because the local courts, including the Court of Appeals tend to favor government entities over individuals. Because the Quality of Lifers are a citizens' GROUP, well represented, I hope they have a better chance. That was not the case for Leucadia Cares, however. The Judges in Superior Court, and the District Attorney give too much power to City Managers and City Attorneys who get paid more than they do, in many cases. Our City Attorney and our City Manager make significantly more than the elected County District Attorney. I was hopeful about her, but I would never vote for her again, either.

    Anyway, if the settlement is final re the accident on Santa Fe, anyone can put in a public information request to see how much the City paid. Settlement agreements by the City ARE NOT CONFIDENTIAL and once they are signed, they can be obtained through a CPRA request, within ten days of the request.

    To me the real shame is that the City is acting as a developer, directly, on this project, and that it appealed it's own planning commission's thoughtful decision, which would have only eliminated one multi purpose (full size soccer field, or football field - Normally youth soccer is played on half fields) and would have retained at least two dedicated baseball diamond fields, as well.

    I believe what is being questioned now is five multi use fields, meaning league soccer, football or lacrosse, and three baseball diamond fields. The multi use term is deceiving, because neighborhood kids and locals won't be able to use the fields for "pick-up games" or non-league play. They will all be booked, or "locked closed" for refurbishing the grass. And we don't want synthetic turf!

  39. The park shouldn't only be used for soccer purposes, we need to have a section for skate boarders, swimmers and out door concerts (residents outside Cardiff should have to pay more).

  40. Why can't the city sell 22 acres on the Cardiff south and west sides to a developer to build homes at 1 unit per acre, and use the proceeds to buy cheaper land elsewhere for the sports league private club?

    The other 22 acres would be sufficient for a nice community park. 22 homes at one home per acre would be reasonable.

    And the city would end up with more park space. Win win win.

  41. Last post:
    1. The City cannot sell the land. It was purchased with Lease Revenue Bonds with the intention to build a Park.
    2. Developers are in sad shape right now. What developer would buy it for as much as the City paid for it?
    3. You should learn about density bonus programs before you suggest the City sell any land to developers. It seems on Olevenhein gets the "special" privileges of having actual land surronding their home. Not sure why that is.

  42. Don't try to pond those sports parks off on Leucadia (OK with sending them to Village Park or Olivenhain).

    If you're looking to collect money to litigate the city - I suggest, you look into your own fat wallets. Your the only ones to win financial with those million dollar homes in Cardiff.

    I hope you suceed, just don't ask me for money!

  43. Last poster-How wrong you are about how rich Cardiffians are. I bought my home in Cardiff 1986 for $115,000. At that time, no one went to San Diego to work-it was just too far. There were artists, surfers, and so called "hippies" living here. It was wonderful. Then the City planning dept. decided we were just too easy and gave some rich people the opportunity to build huge McMansions here. Ask Dr. Lorri about Marion Ross from Happy Days. But, as they say, don't get her started. I was around when she appealed the decision by Kerry Kusiak and the City Council to let Marion have a 29'6" roof, blocking 7 views on our street. She wanted it and Jim Bond said, "dog gone it, she deserves it.". Of course, she dosn't live there but that was not a concern to the City. She was a famous person-enough said. She even has her name on the Cardiff Kook. es, that is what so from me of us call it too. Many of us would like to secede from Encinitas-so the City can take the Hall Property and shove it. Since we have that liability, they will never let us. Solana Beach would love to have us. Ask their Mayor.

  44. I wish Leucadia could secede from Encinitas, too.


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