Monday, February 23, 2009

Little Oaks

San Diego Oak Woodland

Yesterday, the UT ran a story on the city's developing tree policy. The UT reminded readers of our city's namesake, "After all, this is the city whose very name means “little oaks” in Spanish."

Not a lot of people realize we still have native oaks in Encinitas. In east Encinitas, you could still find a few remnants of coast live oak woodlands 10-15 years ago. Back then, you could find massive coast live oaks like you would find in other California woodlands. You can still find good size specimens down along streams in the riparian zones.

Much more widespread, and still easy to find, are stands of miniature oaks. Older stands will have a canopy tall enough to walk under.
Open space preserve off Manchester Avenue.

Don't be surprised if you find a bunch of native ferns under the oak canopy, especially if you are on a east or north facing slope.In some parts of Olivenhain residents incorporated the oaks into their design plans.

This specimen is probably about 70 years old.

I have oak seedlings from the above tree. If anyone wants to give them a good home I will share. They are drought tolerant. Send me an email.

Bonus Photo:

Coast live oak in a Pasadena front yard.


  1. One of the last things the Bob N wrote was, "Plant an Oak, save the world."

  2. Eventually everyone will have to stop watering their vegetation with potable water. We could all water outside plants with gray water or collected rainwater. (save it in an underground tank)
    Also we should only use native plants and trees or drought tolerant species when planting. The city should pass an ordinance requiring that all parks with grass use reclaimed water. No exceptions!
    Most of these ideas we could start now except when rationing starts we will be penalized as water hogs will be able to cut their overall use a lot easier that those who conserve now. Catch 22...

  3. Sagebrush and tumbleweeds. The first ordinance should be a moratorium on all construction.

  4. I just saw my next payment for new boat. Thanks City of Encinitas.

    I love Encinita's old growth and a nice chainsaw ripping in the morning air.

  5. Cool Post Kevin, thanks for sharing.

  6. to area man,

    How can you reconcile your position with the massive influx of people into southern california? Population growth should happen where the resources are adequate for growth, don't you think? Conservation is not a sustainable solution. Population growth will EASILY catch up with conservation efforts. What then? Things will be way worse because we will have all those people here using all the other resources.

  7. Save the Canopy

    We need a moratorium on new development, sooner, not later.

    We need a reasonable tree policy that encourages preserving trees by maintaining them, particularly the old growth along the North Highway 101 Corridor, and discourages tree removal without public notice and an opportunity for input.

    Bob's last column, written from his hospital bed, was "Save the Trees."

    Staff needs to answer the questions posed by the 14 excellent public speakers who were forced to wait for hours, to speak at the tail end of the Feb 11 Council Meeting.

    Maggie Houlihan and Jerome Stocks both asked for a staff report "getting to the bottom" of the debacle around cutting down, rather than just trimming back, eleven healthy, well-loved trees in Orpheus Park. Although they both know what happened. Phil Cotton and Chris Hazeltine acted with disregard of what Teresa Barth and the citizens were asking for: an opportunity to have public and Council discussion at an open hearing.

    Instead, the remaining tree was "massacred" and non-native, water hungry magnolias were planted too close together so that they will also eventually block neighborhood views into and through the park.

    Bob constantly asked for native species to be planted. He was shouted down by Charles Marvin and others when he called out "Native Species!" at the last public workshop re the Streetscape design for North 101 through Leucadia. There was NO opportunity for public speakers at the workshop at Encinitas City Hall.

    The electronic mail from Council, especially if there is "pending litigation" is to be considered a public document related to the litigation and is to be kept for five years, NOT thirty days, as reported in the SDUT article.

  8. Lynn

    It is unfair to single out Mr Marvin. Bob's passion was unrestrained at the workshop. The meeting called for public comment, in detail, and was offered. The comments of Bob's and others was untimely during a presentation.
    Bob's message was valid, his timeng, not.

  9. To Anon 8:18 PM
    Not only would it be great for people to stop moving here but I would love it if all you transplants would go back where you came from. It used to be nice around here when Encinitas and Leucadia had about 2,000 citizens each. Now what do we have, 65,000 or more and about a 100,000 on weekends. What I don't get is that when you transplants move here you want to pull up the ladder and exclude everyone else.
    I'll bet you are of the ilk that is happy when news of disasters kills thousands as you think the world is overpopulated and being exploited. You and your kind are the ones that should move to areas less populated and set up your utopia. But that's right, you are incapable of taking care of yourselve and rely on the producers to make society work.

  10. Lynn-

    I liked Bob and thought he had many good ideas. Shouting out "Native Species!" every 15 seconds as the presenters were explaining how they came up with their last conceptual design was very disturbing. I really wanted to punch Bob in the face that day.

    We all know Bob was big time ADHD and he could not control himself many times. Sometimes it was funny, Like one liner once, "Cher"!....othertimes, the chatter was flat out rude and annoying.

    If Bob would have listened he would have heard that a significant portion of the planting pallet for the Center part of the streetscape is planned for CA natives. But because of his chatter, people like yourself did not hear the presentation.

    There was plenty of time for written input and one on one verbal conversations with the streetscape team.

    We all know you are anti-any change. I even think you would hate Jerome Stocks leaving council because that would be CHANGE.

    Luckily I am one of the many that welcome the streetscape, so we can address that unsafe, fast and ugly dustbowl and have a mainstreet that is in balance with the surrounding community.


  11. Area Man,

    Someone hit a sore spot?

    Rational planning and setting your population size to match the regions resources is called pulling up the ladder?

    You whine about how much better it was. Did you fight to keep Encinitas low density zoned or agriculturally zoned? Probably not, because most of the old timers decided to sell out the future of encinitas. Encinitas is still a nice place to live. Not as nice as it was, but nicer than it will be in 25 years when water is too expensive, we fill up the landfills, we need another regional sports park, the air is bad, and the crowds are lame.

    anon 8:18 did not say that anyone else had to be excluded did he? On the contrary, opening the flood gates ruins it for EVERYONE an nobody gets to have the live we all moved here for.

    There are still places for rent and houses for sale. Anyone can move here. Just like anyone can move to Rancho Santa Fe, only Rancho Santa Fe would be nicer. Rancho has a more tranquil atmosphere because they "pulled up the ladder".

  12. Lynn,

    you comments were unfair and overly biased.

    You are also back to rambling about several issues at once.

  13. Back to the tree policy. The proposed policy is the city's legal way of cutting down more trees. Before Phil Cotton and Chris Hazeltine the city government generally left trees and landscaping alone. Slash and burn will still be here with the policy. Fire Cotton and Hazeltine. They have too much time on their hands.

  14. I asked one simple question for the record during oral comments last week at a city council meeting. "Who's idea was it to cut down the trees in Orpheus Park?"
    I added that I would not like to be told "It was staff's idea, or it was a homeowners association's idea - because two people don't have the same idea at the same time." This idea started with one person.

    I have yet to get an answer.

  15. Lynn-SHUT UP!!! What we need is moratorium on homeowners converting there garages into ILLEGAL rentals!! Know anyone like that Lynn?? If so report them to the city!!

  16. Are they putting in roundabouts in Rancho? How about traffic lights? How about tunnels? Wonder why?

  17. Fred; I put in a request for the same information you asked for, under the Freedom of Information Act. I think the CITY has 6 more days to legally comply. Will let you aLL know.

    Also, whoever keeps telling Lynn to shut up, please stop. She has every right to post, and she makes good comments. If you are going to tell her to shut up, please have the courtesy of letting us know who YOU are.

  18. Kinda funny that Dr. Lorri is telling a blogger to stop posting requests of Lynn to stop posting comments about Marvin.

    There is no constitutional right to post on someone else's blog.

  19. Dr. Lorri- I told Lynn to shut up!! Why?? Because I was AT THE MEETING where Bob was shouting Native Species and NOT ONCE did Mr.Marvin tell BOB or anyone else to shut up. But I did hear Bob and LYNN making divisive comments through out the meeting.

    I am... anonymous- and do you know anyone with an illegal garage conversion?? If so report them to the city!!!

  20. Yes Dr.Lorri, Lynn has every right to post, she just doesn't have the right to LIE!!! About what happens at public meetings where more than she and Russ are present!!! I was there!!! I watched!!! I know!!

    So if it makes you happy...Lynn keep posting. JUST TELL THE TRUTH!!! Just SHUT UP WITH THE LIES!!!!

  21. I would add that the new invasive species policy is misguided though well intended. What is wrong with trees that grow here without a need for water? Does anyone else love Fan Palms, Canary Palms and Eucalyptus trees? All are now illegal.

    As for the fire issue a Torrey Pine burns just as well as a Eucalyptus.

    Also, yes, let's plant more natives too. Only thing is Oaks take a good 50 years to be something.

    And, let's not ever pass a view protection ordinance. The result will be a city with no trees.

  22. Area man. Recycled water is not available at all park locations. Please I beg you libs that think all things are possible if you wish it so don't say otherwise. If you come up with a lame Fred phrase like do it, problem solved I will choke on my lunch.

  23. Sick of anonymous postersFebruary 24, 2009 4:37 PM

    Anon: There is no constitutional right to even have a blog for that matter. However, Dr. Lorri went up against Charlie Marvin regarding the tattoo parlor in Cardiff the first go-around. And, Charlie told Mr. Hernandez to sign a document that was found illegal just a few days ago by Marco Gonzales. So, I know how much Leucadians like Marvin, however, I would take his legal advice, as well as other things, with a grain of salt. He has a lot of property in Lecadia. So I guess it is OK to screw Cardiff as long as Leucadia doest't get screwed? Dr. Lorri at least has the cajones to sign her name. And, she has fought hard to keep the little control citizens have in this City. I ask you Anon: What have you done? You dont' even have the balls to sign your name. God, what a loser.

  24. Too funny. the last posted signed as an anonymous. Classic. Some posters crack me up.

  25. Anon:1:03: If I knew anyone with an illegal garage conversion, I would not report them. Nor would I report a "meth" operation, a marajuana growers operation, you get my drift? However, I will report CIty Government and their violations of the Brown Act every time I personally hear of one or see one. I like Lynn and I am sick of you "trashing" her all of the time. So what if she and Bob blurted out something in a meeting. Maybe you have never seen how the Council treats our citizens. Go to a few Council meetings and then you might understand true frustration. I would say shut the F up about Lynn, but it is your right to post such dribble. Now I will go back to working the "normal" people. Thank you.

  26. I haven’t heard a good justification for why the 101 should be lined with native trees. I’m actually a little disappointing that we won’t be restoring some of the Euc canopy, as they are as much a part of Leucadia’s history as are the oaks. An oak canopy takes a long time to develop and I definitely don’t want the city to go big time with the oaks on 101. Planting oaks is giving a gift to our grandchildren, so I would get very confused if the city planted any oaks.

    Regarding invasives, I know the government has to spend a lot of dough to clear out nuisance plant species that spread like weeds, however I don’t know if the 101 Eucs are acting as an invasive source population.

  27. 3:14

    If retaining some of the daily 500 million gallons of water LOST here durings storms wouldn't begin to solve our water shortage problem is a lame Fred idea, let's hear your solution. Happy you keep my name synonymous with "problem solved" though. Some problems are pretty simple. And seeing that our biggest problem with water in Encinitas is just that it goes downhill, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist or even a special consultant to figure out how to change that.

  28. Kevin,

    spot on.

    If in fact we were to plant native trees to the Leucadia area, nothing would be higher than 8 or ten feet because this whole coastal area except for riparian area around creek was scrub chaparral. A little oak, Del Mar manzanita, or california lalac was all that grew here.

    No tree that could be considered a canopy tree existed in Coastal Encinitas.

    That said, we should plant the majority of our trees to the water source available, 8-10 inches a year.

    Some native and some Mediterranean and other similar climates including Eucs!

  29. BS-

    Plant a majority of the trees to provide a leafy shade canopy. Also I like TPs and Monterrey Pines. plant a mix so it can get tall green canopy trees over our main street.

  30. the landscaping will be watered by recycled water. There is no need for native only that can live on 10 inches of rain a year. I don't call a tumble weed a canopy tree. I want nice shade trees not scrub brush and tumble weeds.

  31. To Smug Anon 1:03 p.m.
    The owner of the Moonlight Lofts, who donated money to buy the boathouses, has been reported to the City has having not one, not two, but three illegal units in his backyard rental on Melba, this report was made by neighbors after a 25 man DEA bust went down in broad daylight. The matter has been processed through the usual BS of fining him, but he has ignored the City. Now, it has been referred to the City Attorney for comment....lets see if Sabine does to him what he did to Lynne. If justice is blind, then this guy should get three times the crap that Lynne had to put up with. Not holding my breath.

  32. Opps -- I meant "donated" money as in he was end-running a State law by paying money not to have to build low income units in the Lofts.

  33. Anon you are getting dumber and dumber...recycled water is expensive and doesn't get recycled from rain

  34. The owner of the Lofts has an appeal on the Council agenda tomorrow. He and his attorney didn't read the fine print on the city required covenant on the Lofts property. The city requires a park fee payment before a certificate of occupancy for the condos. He wants a deferment of the payment. Read the staff report.

  35. Bonddi-

    You sound as stupid as Lynn. Of course it recycled water is not rain. that is called rainwater. Recycled water comes from treated sewer. Currently the areas recycled water treatment plants produce more then is used and it flows unused into the ocean. Lets use it. I know Bonddi/Lynn you don't like any change so you don't like recycled water.

  36. One of the former owners of the Boathouses has the house on Melba with the illegal units.

    The city used the Moonligh Lofts required affordable housing fee to help purchase the Boathouses.

    Two different people both asking for favors from the city.

  37. Anyone seen Dr. Lorri's Community Forum article in today's (Weds) North County Times? Quite interesting.

  38. Yes, there is treated water flowing into the ocean that could be used as recycled water for landscaping. The problem is the piping is lacking to get it to where is can be used.

    And why is this? The city refuses to spend money on the necessary pipes because of the cost. The financial burden would be carried by the water and sewer district, and these utilities are already obligated to help pay the Lease Revenue Bonds used to build the library and buy the Hall property.

    These bonds are supposed to be paid with a revenue stream, but there isn't any. They don't show as debt on the city budget. Now with the boy genius, Gary Lee, back at the water district after leaving for a time, the city is frantically devising ways to get more money for the General Fund out of SDWD just to plug holes in the budget.

    Don't hold your breath on any widespread use of recycled water soon. The city has salary and pension obligations and bond payments that will always come first.

  39. Dances with CoyotesFebruary 25, 2009 8:16 AM

    Area Man,
    This place was even better before you and your European ancestors arrived. Just remember every time you rail against "you transplants" the ghosts of countless past generations of Luiseños are listening too.

  40. Actually, the ratepayers of SDWD are already paying for recycled water on the take or pay plan approved a few years ago. Under the plan the SDWD board/City Council approved buying a certain dollar amount of recycled water from the SJJPA.

  41. Luiseños were immigrants too.

  42. Dances with Coyotes; check-out this link regarding Clovis cultures and European DNA.

  43. That link didn't come out right. If you Google "Clovis Culture and European DNA" you should get a link regarding the topic.

    It's off topic but may be humbling for the overly righteous.

  44. It's true that the SDWD ratepayers are already paying for recycled water, part of which is being dumped into the ocean because there is no place to send it to for use. Another bright idea of the boy genius Gary Lee. We pay for something we don't use.

    It's also true that the council and the SDWD board approved this. Surprise? No, because council and board are the same people. So the council always gets what it wants. In this case it is more revenue without going to the trouble to get voter approval.

    Teresa Barth has been the only one to support an independent SDWD board.

  45. Tonight the Council votes on the ordinance authorizing a flat auto allowance for boards, commissions, and committees. They don't care that giving flat auto allowances is possibly against state law. Hey, City Council, what part of not legal don't you understand?

  46. "What part of legal does the City Council and Glenn Sabine understand?" might actuallly be a shorter answer "than what part of illegal to they understand." Seeems like violating the law is something the Council and Glenn understand pretty well. They just can't seem to understand how to "DO LEGAL! "

  47. The 101 landscaping will not be irrigated with recycled water unless a pipe is built. Cottonwood Creek Park, the City's largest water user, is not irrigated with recycled water despite being planned and plumbed for it. Don't be fooled by the purple valve covers. The City needs to build a pipe west in Encinitas Blvd from Saxony. Not a very far distance, but they haven't made this a priority. Think about that when you are forced to cut back on water use when we go into Stage II water rationing.

  48. Now that Encinitas Blvd is freshly paved the city will come along and dig it up for a new pipe. Thats their way.

  49. Had a friend that bought a house in Pasadena because of a beautifull old oak tree. Guess what?

    During the last big storm, it not only fell can crushed half his house and BMW, it almost killed them.

    I think the city is doing the right policy. Take down and replace the AUSTRALIAN (not US) Eucalyptus tress and rebuild the 101.

  50. People are willing to make consessions. For example, at a rate of 60 miles per hour, only 50,000 people per year are slaughtered in America. Whereas at 10 mph that number would significantly decrease. I'm not saying what's right or wrong here, just what we all are "comfortable with" and how willing we are to take that RISK with theirs and their loved ones lives every day.


    It's tragic that your friend lost a house and car from a large tree falling. But it is an extremely rare occurance. I dare say it pales in comparison to hundreds of people killed just by cars every day. Something else that techically is avoidable but socially not acceptable because people would rather drive fast than save 40,000 lives per year.

    Besides, if we put a sign at the north end of our canopy saying "Enter at your own risk" it might keep Carlsbad from using 101 to get to work. Bah dom bam.

  51. Jack,
    Are you saying don't plant any trees?
    What exactly are you proposing?

    Can't we rebuild the 101 without taking down the trees.


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