Friday, October 16, 2009

Andreen Responds

When the chamber report came out I sent Mike Andreen an email about the issue. Below is the core of the response.

Letter to the City of Encinitas from Michael Andreen, September 14, 2009

Dear Richard,

First, in regard to the item on the tentative Agenda for Wednesday
October 21, 2009; for reconsideration of renewal of the agreement with
the Encinitas Chamber of Commerce for the Operation of the Encinitas
Visitor Center, I would like to formally request a meeting with City
Manager Phil Cotton tomorrow or Thursday morning at the latest.

The subject of the meeting is the fact that on Wednesday, April 15th,
2009, the Encinitas City Council passed a motion to continue funding
the Encinitas Chamber of Commerce to operate the Encinitas Visitor
Center for one more year, contingent upon receipt of an "audit within
60 days." (Please find video linked excerpts of the motion and
pre-motion detailing that "an audit in 60 days" was required).

As Mayor Houlihan stated at the 4-15-09 public meeting, "I am really
glad to hear that you (Ken Gross and the Chamber) are doing an audit,
I am assuming that this person (chosen) is someone picked for their
independence, and to be quite honest, I don't care what the audit
shows, I just want the truth."

In reality, the Encinitas North Coast Chamber of Commerce did not
return an audit in 60 days, nor six months; on September 16, 2009, the
Encinitas North Coast Chamber of Commerce returned something much less
than an audit, nor was it even a 'review' according to the CPA Colleen
Walsh a Chamber Board Member who prepared it; nor did it allow for
analysis of 'how' the public monies the City of Encinitas forwarded to
the Chamber were expended to operate the Encinitas Visitor Center,"for
the year previous", as you stated, Richard; meaning fiscal year, 2008.

Instead, the Chamber submitted a listing of financial categories not
broken out or differentiated between public monies and private
Membership or Special Event monies.

Also attached to this report were conclusions submitted by Chamber
President Ken Gross that were completely unsubstantiated character
assassinations with absolutely no documentation to back up his spurious claims.

Gross tells of misdeeds, but showed none in the report. Where's the
beef? I am and
was always a 1099 independent contractor with absolutely no access to
financials and have no business being the focus of an "audit" of the
Visitor Center funding as I was never ever a part of the Visitor
Center and serve only as a convenient scapegoat for Mr. Gross to use
as part of a whitewash of his personal responsibility as an Executive
of the Encinitas Chamber of Commerce for five years.

In fact, the report by the CPA Walsh that she prepared for the Chamber
is,"...substantially less in scope than an audit in accordance with
generally accepted auditing standards." In her own words.

In the actual report submitted by the Chamber, Ms. Walsh clearly
states,"This forensic report is presented as an expository tool for
management and the Board of Directors. The information and findings
presented herein are not designed for those who are not informed about
the financial matters of Encinitas Chamber of Commerce."

"This is not a full scope report, nor is it an audit."

So, what was submitted was not an audit, nor was it independent as
Mayor Houlihan personally requested, nor was it done in 60 days. For
that reason and others, I would like to meet with the City Manager to
formally ask him to prevail upon the City Council to remove the item
from the 21st and return the report to the Encinitas Chamber of
Commerce, as they have clearly failed to submit what is legally
required of the Chamber to fulfill the requirements of the action
taken by the Encinitas City Council on April 15, 2009.

Like Mayor Houlihan, I would like what the Chamber has submitted to be
the truth. While it is several things, it is not an audit, and
certainly not the truth.

Thank you in advance for your help. I will make myself available any
time the City Manager is available to meet with me.


Mike Andreen

Mike also posed some other interesting questions in his email to me. I'll try to get to some of them soon.

See Also: Chamber Report Coverage


  1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

  2. Keep your comments somewhat clean and civil.

    I removed the first comment. It was mostly a nasty attack on Mike that had one salvageable comment, "What is your point Mike?" or something like that.

  3. I hope our City Manager does not waste his limited and important City Manager Time and our tax dollars by meeting with Mr. Andreen. Is he even an Encinitas resident or does he have a salent business in Encinitas? Let the DA handle Mr. Andreen!

  4. Kevin- The editor of free speach!!!!Boooooo!!!!

    Its the End of the blog as you know it..... Its the end of the blog as you know it... .and I feel fine!

    The comment was Mike's writing is tiring and he should be concise on making his point or points.

    JP- Reel your boy in please.

  5. Kevin, please don't apologize for moderating this blog. It is a welcome feature. People have no real understanding of free speech at all it seems. Civility and respect is welcome. I wouldn't miss the all caps and exclamation points of the authoritarians at all.

    Refuting the Andeen letter is the point, not you acting as a moderator.

  6. Mike has been a negative impact on historic old Encinitas for years.
    Rather than try to help a situation he is always on the attck mode. he spreads rumors as fast as he can. Most of them false. Let New Encinitas have him.

  7. Reserving JudgmentOctober 16, 2009 7:04 PM

    Mike has made some good points. The report was called an "audit" in the news, on this blog, and elsewhere. If it wasn't an actual audit, there may be irregularities and Andreen may have a point. I am all for hearing all sides, unfortunately Andreen was quite silent while the "audit" was circulated in the press.

  8. Keep up the good work Kevin. It's fucking annoying when someone posts a diabtribe full of fucking four letter words that just attack someone else because they are named Lynn, who happens to have a four letter name, and then threatens them. Those who post such foul thoughts, I want to ask them "What the shit, who the fuck cares, motherfucker." The point is I am not threatening physical violence. Some people don't get the difference.

  9. Well the last post was somewhat clean and civil....somewhat?

  10. 7:13 classic. let the edits begin. The deleted post was something about Mike having bad breath, and something about fat and tired writting skills. it ended with what's your point jackass?

    I guess its not the profanity, it the no flattering honesty or some could argue personal attacks that Kevin dislikes.

    I guess he sees it as mean attacks. yet I guess he doesn't see Mike antics against many Encinitians as ruthless. Need I bring up the bullshit claim about our mayor skipping out on a bill? Can you say clown cat? Mike has been the source of numerous very damaging rumors. Yet you acknowledge that he has bad breath and this writting is fat and tired and your post gets deleted.

    I don't get it. Yet I haven't seen deleted comments when people tee off on Maggie, Jerome, Charley Marvin, Lynn, Ray, Rick, Danny Boy, James Bond, or our own beloved Fred. Even sweet at heart Dr. Lorri take some spears once in a while. We know all the folks take in what they feel is warranted and leave the rest behind. I would like to hear Dr. Lorri's thoughts on blog editing non flattering posts. My question is where do you draw the line. Is 7:13 OK. Is observing someone's fat OK? Is acknowledging bad breath OK? Is noticing someone’s not a true blonde OK? Is saying something about someone’s boogie boarding style being bad? Where does it start and where does it stop? Is censorship a good thing? What are the rules? Maybe we should start with a few easy questions for Kevin,
    Q1. Please explain what are the criteria for an acceptable post?

    Q2 What is your vision for the Leucadia blog comments?

    Q3 Does JP agree with your answers to Q1 and Q2?

    Q4. Does JP agree with censorship?

    Q5. Do you believe in free net?

    Q5 Do you believe in freedom speech? ( its directly tied to the free net question?)

    Q 6 Did you just delete the first comment because you’re sick of all the negativity on the blog and you wish Leucadian bloggers were just a little nicer and had more couth?

  11. The roots of LeucadiaOctober 16, 2009 9:16 PM

    Something new besides tired old Mike Andreen dribble…..

    I googled Leucadia and went to Wikipedia in which one comment was it was named after the greek island of Lefkada, or Leucas (Greek: Λευκάδα, IPA: [le̞fˈkaða]; ancient Greek and Katharevousa: Λευκάς, Leukás; Italian: Santa Maura) is a Greek island in the Ionian Sea on the west coast of Greece,

    In which it describes:

    Lefkada Town (population: 6,903), has a pedestrianised main street, a marina, and bus access to Athens.

    In which, A pedestrianised main street is defined as

    A pedestrian mall (also known as a pedestrian street) is the most common form of pedestrian zone in large cities. It is a street lined with storefronts and closed off to most automobile traffic. Emergency vehicles have access at all times and delivery vehicles are restricted to either limited delivery hours or entrances on the back streets.[1]
    In the 1960s and early 1970s many mid-sized cities in the United States experimented with installing pedestrian malls in their downtown areas, as a response to the commercial success of self-contained edge-of-town shopping malls.[citation needed] Downtown retailers wanted to preserve their businesses; the cities wanted to defend their tax base.[citation needed] In 1959, Kalamazoo, Michigan became the first American city to adopt a pedestrian mall for their downtown area, closing two blocks of Burdick Street to automobile traffic.


    Interesting…. Is Alternative 4A more in line with the roots of Leucadia?

  12. "Is Alternative 4A more in line with the roots of Leucadia?"

    Absolutely not. If 101 forbid cars, then Vulcan and Neptune WOULD bear the load of all it's traffic. As 4a is the most effecient method to aid traffic movement through town of all the alternatives, Leucadia Mall would have nothing in common with it. But if following original Leucadia's example more closely is prefered, one would also have to become a despondent lesbian and leap off the highest bluff at high tide. And there's nothing worse than cut-through traffic unless it's a despondent lesbian, on a bluff or not. Cool painting though.

  13. lets get back to basicsOctober 16, 2009 11:11 PM


    What do you say?

  14. Meathead. I think you may have gone to the extreme. Which is OK, but others may have other thoughts about the meaning. Like currently, our main street is overly focused on the automobile. Maybe we should look at all the users of a mainstreet?

    Bikes? pedestrians? Trees? a nice gathering space to support local businesses?

    Do you want a freeway cutting through town or do you want a local mainstreet that local residents can enjoy and spend money at local businesses?

  15. poster 916

    Where si the marina?

  16. Its the End of the blog as you know it?

    Maybe. Moderation on the web is the norm not exception.

    JP has shied away from blog moderation because it takes time. He has tried a couple times to use forced sign ins but many regular commenters do not want to have to sign in for various reasons.

    I thought a post from Mike was a great opportunity to broach moderation. I can't think of any issue where I would have wanted to help Mike, so there could be no suspicion that I was acting on a personal bias.

    I don't know that

    Free speech

    I'm a strong defender of free speech and I proudly support organizations such as Calaware and CFAC. I wish more people in Encinitas would join one of these organizations.

    Having moderated discussions on the Leucadia blog is not a violation of any law or constitutional right. Moderation it self does not violate principles of free speech, however the rules of the moderation can determine the openness of the discussion.

    MotherForgotten profanity was the point. I'd be inclined to accept moderation rules that would accept MF's comments. I'd also be included to accept anything from someone if their comments are not anonymous.

    Yet I haven't seen deleted comments when people tee off on Maggie, Jerome, Charley Marvin, Lynn, Ray, Rick, Danny Boy, James Bond, or our own beloved Fred.

    It has been the Wild West on the blog. I've seen lots of comments that were not constructive in any way and would be unacceptable in any public venue. I'd like to develop blog norms that allow for those comments to continue if the commenter feel it is necessary and minimize the unnecessary profanity and immature attacks.

    I have to take care of an urgent matter. More latter.

  17. I can't waite to hear the answers to the rest of the questions. Nice start. I look forward to learning the rules of the new blog.

    I noticed Mother Forgotten is still not deleted. I don't understand whats the criteria.

    Looking for answers.

  18. Drivel, would have been more effective if you had read the report, the numbers etc.

    Then did a Q & A to the report facts. vs. what it is, you might as well as let him guest author post instead of saying, "I sent and email" "here is his response"

    Just Lazy,

    Another divisive stirring of the pot full of

  19. I haven't been able to fully respond to this thread. I've been attending to important family priorities. Feel free to ask me for an update on the priority, off line.

    I have a few moments now to chip away at this:

    Q1. Please explain what are the criteria for an acceptable post?
    I'll formulate a concrete proposal as soon as I get a chance.

    Most people I've spoken with think it would be beneficial to adopt some guidelines. I'm sure most of the residents of Leucadia would welcome mild moderations rules that are less restrictive than found on most news sites (there. Seriously off topic personal attacks on a person's physical characteristics don't have to acceptable to allow for free flow of thoughts.

    Before you jump the gun, I not would support outlawing such speech by someone on their own blog or in a government venue. I fight for people to have that freedom.

    Q2 What is your vision for the Leucadia blog comments?
    Civil, open, inviting. Moderated on the rare occasion that the boundaries need to be reaffirmed.

    Q5. Do you believe in free net?
    I do. I can say more if you want more.

    Q5 Do you believe in freedom speech? ( its directly tied to the free net question?)
    I've put my money and time behind this belief.

    Q 6 Did you just delete the first comment because you’re sick of all the negativity on the blog and you wish Leucadian bloggers were just a little nicer and had more couth?

    That has a shade of reality. I knew I wouldn't be able to check the blog for a while. I did expect Andreen's letter to bring out the worst in many commenters. I'd hoped to corral the decorum. I should have known better.

  20. anon 1140,

    There are only a few residents that do their own research on more than a couple Encinitas issues (when not related to their personal gain). I'd love to have the time to dig deep on every issue. We are always looking for people to help us out, submit opinion pieces or submit Q and As.

  21. Only a low life coward would resort to personal attacks while posting anonymously. They are not nice people and it shows in their personality every hour of every day.

  22. Ah, moderation – the eternal question! ;-)

    One has to make a distinction between a public place and a personal space. The moderation rules will be different.

    If you comment on AOL or YouTube, you are commenting in a public space, and you can pretty much say whatever you want.

    If you post a comment on someone's blog, you are a guest and should follow the rules of their house. Consider those comment threads to be their living room. Would you really say THAT in front of my Mom, wife and children? Actually, my Mom, wife, brother and children read, at least sometimes, my blog.

    So, as an owner of a personal blog, I set the rules. I can make rules known in advance, or just be completely idiosyncratic and do whatever I please depending on my mood at the moment – you can complain as much as you want: my house, my rules. Early in the life of my blog, mainly before I joined, I wrote mostly about politics, the 2004 U.S. election was raging, my posts were deliberately provocative, and my comment threads were sometimes very nasty – and I was OK with that. When I joined a science network and started writing much more about science and the media, I toned down myself a notch.

    What I do now is not really internally consistent, but works for me. Most of my posts are in ‘normal’ tone, being friendly, or dryly informative, or trying to be fun, etc. If you post a comment that is not nice or totally off-topic, I will delete with no warning. Three strikes and out: do this three times and I will ban your a$$ off my blog forever.

    But every now and then I write a harsh or provocative post myself – in such posts the rules of engagement are different: I allow much more rowdiness, I laugh if PhysioProf uses the F-word seven times per sentence, I will engage the people in vigorous and sometimes ugly debate myself. This is a place to vent. I hear about it from my Mom later, chiding me gently for not being nice to people, but I think she groks why I sometimes need to do this, she is just protective and afraid for my safety. This is the case of a buddy-night at my house, a rowdy party on an evening when my wife and kids are not at home so we can use foul language if we want to.

    There are times and topics when politeness should be the norm. There are others, when dirty language should rue the day. I am on record that the people who decide the level of politeness at any given time should never be the people who have the power over others. Demanding politeness of others is almost always a demeaning method of putting others down, shutting minority voices out, and preserving the existing power structure. But that is in private spaces only.

    Public spaces (e.g., forums) have to have explicit rules and moderators following those rules to the T. I use different rules on my own blog (personal space), on the PLoS Blog (corporate space) and on PLoS ONE papers (official record). On my own blog, I can be capricious. On the PLoS blog, I can demand politeness. On PLOS papers, we have devised very complex moderation rules and it sometimes takes months of discussion before I manage to get some comment deleted or someone banned.

    By having and using moderation rules, bloggers get to set the tone of their site. If they want to have a place for constructive discussion, they can make it be so with just a little bit of effort.

  23. Another caring Leucadian.October 17, 2009 9:27 PM

    Anon- I love that you posted Anon. Classic. I LOL on that one.

    Anon 8:04- well said.

    Kevin- Well done. Your integrity shows. I hope your personal issues and priorities are not bad for you or your family. You’re a good man with a great family.

    I look forward to the rules for posting and the vision of the blog. I bet you and JP will have some good discussion on that one. Like was said, it’s the end of the blog as we know it. Is that bad? I don't know. It might be good, but in the end it is censorship.

    I personally think that If you post on a public space you are open to world’s comments. It’s how the editors choose to allow comments which create a personal Political opinion or sway. If you edit to much you become a rag for your political agenda. Like the Associated Press (AP) has become a propaganda machine for the US Government. The AP is pathetic in my opinion.

    Then there's the case where something is posted about someone, who may not like the content. This is a touchy subject. Many facts brought out in your blog posts are damaging to the subjects. Sometime truth hurts. Sometimes truth is brutal. Some time unfounded attacks happen with no substantiated backup occurs. Its all on the internet. For good or bad.

    With that said, this is JPs and maybe Kevin's blog who may have equal pull now which is fine by me. Both are intelligent and caring Leucadians with high integrity. This is your blog.

    I welcome the rules as you may. One thing for certain, it will definitely be a different space once you start editing.

    Most important- thank you both for taking the time and effort to make this blog a fact hitting and at times very entertaining space. I and I know a lot of other people really appreciate it.

    Encinitas is much more informed because of you two.


    Another caring Leucadian.

  24. Political satire is wounding, critical, nasty, and makes some people uncomfortable. I love the political satire on this blog. Even some of the most inane comments make me least they're original. As for politeness, we have shown we have thick hides and can take the darts and peashots hurled at us with such ferocity by the whimpering Anons. That said, I have found some comments to be offensive, but I just ignore them.

  25. I'm Also bonddi, but some call me anon.October 18, 2009 3:53 PM

    Bonddi- Kiss my ass. There. How did that feel. You are posting Anon. IF you aren't, whats your name?

  26. Those with half a brain have figured out my name. Nuf sd.

  27. If you are active in city hall beyond your own pet projects you will know exactly who Di. Bond is. She is far from anon and I look forward to your broader participation in civic affairs.

  28. Posters who resort to potty-mouth usually can't get their idea across and use cuss words and personal attacks for a lack of intelligence.
    I for one don't read posts where there is gutter language so you posters are not reaching the entire audience.
    Thanks to Kevin C. and JP for the Leucadia Blog.

  29. Anon 7:00-

    I don't believe you. I say BS. I know you read all the posts. The nasty ones get read the most. The long boring ones get skipped often.

  30. 7:00
    One serious question.
    WHO gave ALL that power to a little four letter word to upset SO many for SO long? Anyone dare to answer? I'd sooner be upset with such a person than anything word they could invent. But they did a good job distubing almost everyone with it, I'll give them that. You can't unring a f-----g bell.

  31. Too funny. I don't read potty posts.... Like you know before you read them. Classic.


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