Monday, January 11, 2010

Streetscape plans 4A vs 5

It's the battle of the streetscape plans.

Plan 4A contains all the bells and whistles. Roundabouts, sidewalks, tree planting, bike lanes, reverse angle parking and a reduction of the north bound lane.

Plan 5 is more minimalist with no roundabouts and basic beautification of the 101 Leucadia corridor.
EDIT-Plan 5 calls for adding new traffic signals at El Portal and Grandview.

City councilman Jerome Stocks suggested there may be another plan that combines elements of both 4A and 5.

From the North County Times, The council's expected to tell city planners which of the two it prefers so that the project can move into the final design stages. Construction work is expected to occur over several years.

"If I had to predict anything, I would predict that the council will likely come up with yet another alternative that somehow blends various elements of 4A and 5," Stocks said Thursday. "That would be consistent with what I've experienced over the years."


Check out the different streetscape plans on the city website.

What plan do you prefer? 4A or 5?

76 comments:

  1. My great grandpappy told me that...January 11, 2010 9:04 PM

    Dateline January 11, 2142... The Greater Encinitas Chamber of Commerce, along with the Mayor are pleased to announce that Streetscape plan 682C incorporates the true will of its citizens.

    "We hope to be able to pave a small sidewalk after NCTD completes the 16th track along former Coast Highway", the Mayor said.

    One disgruntled old timer reminded everyone that Encinitas once contemplated actually having businesses, walkways, bicycle lanes and automobiles on the Coast Highway. They even had plans to plant a tree canopy and vegitation, but self-dealing, rumors and complaints by short-sighted people resistant to progress bogged the project down.

    Now our only hope is that NCTD board will allow the city to construct a small 4 foot sidewalk in the train right of way. "We have an indication that NCTD will agree, but only if the City promises to not plant anything living and a guarantee that there will be no maintenance by NCTD".

    ReplyDelete
  2. Concerned citizensJanuary 11, 2010 9:31 PM

    Concerned citizens of Leucadia support 4A.

    ReplyDelete
  3. My great grandmammy told me that some people are born with an inability to yield and hence hate roundabouts.

    Poor old grandmammy was T boned at Leucadia Blvd. the following year and killed in 2023

    ReplyDelete
  4. Oh yes, on Wed. there will be the LA fire man, who will have extra anti 4a signs available, the I hate round abouts, (just because) clans, the I hate reverse angle parking people,(who are happy with the way one risks their lives and others backing out blindly into traffic downtown, the any change is bad band and others that have not been involved with the public process.

    What YOU can do is send an email or just go to the meeting and fill out a speaker slip and offer your support for the most effective alternative. You don't need to say anything other than your name, address and I support 4a.
    SUPPORT 4A ON WED.

    ReplyDelete
  5. 4A 4A 4A 4A 4A 4A

    ReplyDelete
  6. Support plan 5.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I drove the Bird Rock corridor this past Sunday afternoon. With one lane in each direction, traffic was STOPPED continuously. I opted to take the side streets. Is it NOT similar West of Coast HWY when traffic backs up mornings, evenings and on most weekends? Now take two traffic lanes plus a bike lane and all that desired pedestrian traffic and compress them into ONE lane at the roundabouts. GRIDLOCK! NOT well thought out considering our population and resulting traffic are multiplying daily!

    I've lived 30 years by the Panniken and forsee a large negative impact on the neighborhood if lanes are cut down to one in each direction at roundabouts. How is a "NO RIGHT TURN" sign Southbound in the morning and inevitable "NO LEFT TURN' signs Northbound evenings and weekends going to be enforced at Roundabouts? I believe it's going to be a MESS!!! Option 5 or back to the drawing board for more thought.

    ReplyDelete
  8. reverse angle parking? good luck with that. what a disaster that will be.

    ReplyDelete
  9. 9:24.... you are so full of shit. I drive the birdrock 101 all the time and have never seen it backed up. I also have several freinds that live there and they have never seen it back up. They love it.

    Post a picture liar.

    You just want Leucadia to be shitty.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Anon 10:13
    I drove Birdrock on Saturday at 1:30 p.m. Could not go over 20 miles an hour and was stopped at several roundabouts as cars yielded to pedestrians and cars already in the roundabouts. I did not have time to stop at any of the ticky tacky shops painted in screaming mall colors. Roundabouts do work but not when they are positioned so close together.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Reverse angle parking is easier than parallel parking. Try it some time, instead of dissing something you don't know. Shhheeez, what a bunch of numbnutts

    ReplyDelete
  12. I can't wait to practice my backing in skills in Leucadia! Just don't honk at me if it takes 20 tries.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Grandma, can you parallel park?? If you can then you can reverse angle park. It's the same as parallel parking without the final twist of the wheel.

    There, so now I have made it easy for you, you can do it... that's right, keep going and stop and kill your engine when you tires hit the curb. Excellent, you can drive.

    See how easy that was, now go tell your city council that you support 4A!!

    ReplyDelete
  14. I sure will rather back angle park and pull out being able to see traffic and bikes than parking downtown and blindly backing into traffic, not being able to see any oncomming traffic.

    ReplyDelete
  15. Grandma-

    Oh my GOD. You had to waite for a pedestrian. You poor old lady. How dare someone cross a street on foot. You should have ran the sucker down. They should be like you and never get out of your car.

    Granny- I saw you and your ass is as flat as a board from sitting in your car seat all the time and never walking anywhere. Get out of your car a bit and live life alittle.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Birdrock has 6 in 1/2 a mile.

    Leucadia is proposing 5 in 2 miles a big difference.

    I wish there where more roundabouts planned.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Boycott the pannikin!!January 12, 2010 2:23 PM

    Boycott the Pannikin, they do nothing for Leucadia.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I agree with 2:23

    ReplyDelete
  19. I agree with 2:23, although I am not sure how you got there.

    ReplyDelete
  20. It seems like a 'no brainer'.
    4a addresses the identified needs of a leucadia streetscaape more effectively, in all areas, than 5.

    ReplyDelete
  21. boycott intolerant Leucadians

    ReplyDelete
  22. I can't parallel park any more because of arthritis in my neck, and my husband always told me not to hit the curb as it makes the wheels go out of alignment. I guess I will have to park on the other streets. And, I do walk, I have a walker. I am extremely allergic to gas fumes, so I will be wearing a gas mask to traverse the pedestrian unfriendly walkways.

    ReplyDelete
  23. ROUNDABOUTS SUCK!
    People die in roundabouts.
    Choke points, three lanes merging into one for five roundabouts.
    Obstacle course.
    Fire trucks, buses, big rigs barely make it through them.
    What happens when a bike rider tries to negotiate them at the same time. Is he literally thrown under the bus?
    What about emergency vehicles when there is traffic snarls? Have them back up, turn around and take Vulcan or Neptune?
    Why change the historic character of Highway 101 forever.
    Roundabouts are not needed to plant more trees and landscaping.
    Successful businesses don't need government subsidies.
    Mostly supported by transplants who just can't stand it that we had it so good before they moved here. And want to screw it up.
    I know of at least three attorneys that are pushing it, that alone should be enough to know it is absolutely the worst plan imaginable.

    ReplyDelete
  24. The scene is a dark jungle in Africa. Two tigers are stalking through the brush when the one to the rear reaches out with his tongue and licks the ass of the tiger in front. The startled tiger turns around and says, "Hey! Cut it out, already." The rear tiger says, "Sorry," and they continue.

    After about another 5 minutes, the rear tiger again reaches out with his tongue and licks the ass of the tiger in front. The front tiger turns around and cuffs the rear tiger and says, "I said stop it!" The rear tiger says, "Sorry," and they continue.

    After about another 5 minutes, the rear tiger once more licks the ass of the tiger in front. The front tiger turns around and asks the rear tiger, "What is it with you, anyway?"

    The rear tiger replies, "Well, I just ate an attorney and I'm trying to get the taste out of my mouth!"

    ReplyDelete
  25. If 753 is against them, I am for them! They most be good for Leucadia

    4A is the answer.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Grandma-

    I heard your grand daughter farts in your face for stealing the future of American opportunity by borrowing against her future to pay for your dying ass and being so ignorant on traffic issues.

    She told me you are too old to drive anyway. You have lost all your abilities.

    ReplyDelete
  27. I wish not acquiesce in on it. I assume nice post. Particularly the title-deed attracted me to be familiar with the unscathed story.

    ReplyDelete
  28. It will be neither 4A or 5. Council will vote to pay Peltz for yet another design that will please no one.

    ReplyDelete
  29. What's wrong with 20 MPH? Sounds like a good speed to me. If you are in a hurry get up on I-5. Slow traffic all the way through our city.

    Sounds like gram-ma needs to be retested by DMV. If you can't see behind you you shouldn't be driving.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Palin 10:12
    You express yourself so eloquently and raise such pertinent counter points I am persuaded to commit hari kari as I have no worth and am just taking up space on this planet. We need more citizens like you, intelligent, thoughtful and kind, who so generously take time to point out where everyone else is failing as a homo sapien. You are so talented at debate and diplomacy I don't know how you lost the Presidential race. Perhaps you could run for Encinitas City Council, you would fit right in with the three stooges.

    ReplyDelete
  31. This has been a very interesting couple of weeks. In my 23 years as a firefighter I have never imagined it would be so difficult to get city management to acknowledge and adhere to their own policies, standards and codes. Especially when they are in place to insure public safety.

    To all the people who are adamant to proceed with 4A. I admire you, and in many aspects I agree with you. I am an avid, walker, biker, runner and very pro environment. As I do work in LA, I try very hard to consolidate my shifts and keep my commute to once or twice a week and car pool when I can. In addition I drive a high millage natural gas vehicle to minimize my footprint.

    I believe our city has grossly neglected and has miss managed the Leucadia 101 corridor and would love to turn back the clock and bring it back how it was 20 years ago and I do not want to stop this from happening. My effort is to ensure public safety standards are not neglected.

    Plan 4A has many good ideas and concepts however the neglect to the public safety aspects are risks I know to be foolish and I can not stand by and let this happen, and to the supporters of 4A. Please maintain your vigilance and efforts to restore 101 its original beauty but not in a way that will comprise the public safety of my home, my family, my neighbors, and our three beach access.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Fireman Dave- Twenty years ago Leucadia's 101 was more of a shit hole than now. Bums, hookers and drug dealers. Are telling us you want to return to the glory days of shit holes?? Yeah right!!

    As for your credentials of enviro credibility, big deal. You consolidate your work schedule to maximize your income with gross levels of overtime to max your pension. You are on the wrong side of the coming revolution in which hard working taxpayers( people that don't get paid to go grocery shopping or paid to work out on the job, sound familiar??) will soon be kicking you and your pension straight to hell.

    AS for your scare tactics about one lane and response times, I was in LA last Friday and the gridlock was just that, gridlock. No amount of lanes of traffic was going to over come the problems that are LA. No emergency personal were going to respond in less than 4 minutes to any problem on the 405 or Wilshire or any of the other streets I drove. Leave your LA ideas in LA.

    4A Dave, say it 4A!! Say I endorse 4A

    If you and the glass man are successful in killing this for Leucadia, shame on you. You and the glass man will be responsible for making Leucadia a ghetto. And if you love ghettos so much on your next trip to LA, STAY THERE AND THE GHETTO THAT IS LA!!!

    Concerned citizens understand the importance of 4A.

    PS- Take the glass man to LA, ghetto lovers!!

    ReplyDelete
  33. 1o1 is designed to accomidate just as many cars as El Camino Real, are we to install roundabouts and single lanes there to slow down traffic and make it nicer?
    Leave 1o1 like it is and move if you don't like it here.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Fireman Dave,

    As I mentioned in the post with your editorial, the data you cite about response times over five minutes is bullshit as relates to 101. And I'm not sure what you're trying to get from City Hall, but to suggest that plan 4A would somehow compromise public safety is bullshit. You don't like roundabouts (for whatever reason) so you are resorting to the tried-and-true political approach: scare people.

    When complete, plan 4A will be the most effective way to improve emergency response on 101 in Leucadia because accidents will be greatly reduced along that stretch of highway. As for fire response, that will likely improve too, but nothing beats a good homeowner's policy.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Fireman Dave sure does think our Fire Dept. is shit. Too bad he lives here.

    ReplyDelete
  36. 753- I would love roundabouts on ElCamino, then I wouldn't have to sit at so many stoplights burning gas for no reason other than idiots such as your self enjoying the smell of exhaust fumes.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Dear Fireman Dave,
    I appreciate your concerns. The modern traffic calming concepts that are, hopefully, going to be approved, are being utilized all up and down the coast without the dire results you predict. Amazingly, Ja Jolla/bird Rock have implimented much the same urban design concepts as are
    propossed in alternative 4 a. They have not experienced the massive gridlock you predict and are actually very pleased with the improvements. It is safer for cars, bikes and pedestrians and all the emergency departments are confident that the designs are not putting anyone at risk.
    This is true all up and down the coast and similar plans are being propossed for Oceanside and Solana Beach.
    I believe 4a is the best for our future

    ReplyDelete
  38. Who is the psycho bashing Dave Smith and, essentially, all firefighters in general? Have some balls and say who you are, don't hide behind an "anonymous" tag. I am saddened and embarrassed by you. Do you really think that firefighters just grocery shop and workout? Did you forget about 911? 343 died doing their job, hey they were not grocery shopping. Would you, who doesn't even have the guts to post a comment with your real name have the guts to do the job of a firefighter? No way in hell. Do you realize that they risk their LIVES for strangers every single day they are on the job? That when they kiss their families goodbye and go to work that they know they might not ever come home again, such is the nature of their employment? Does your job put you at increased risk for cancer so much so that if you do, in fact, die of cancer that it is considered "presumptive" -that you got it from your years of service in the fire department, being exposed to high levels of toxic smoke and exhaust? When was the last time you encountered teeth and brain matter splattered all over the highway as part of your workday? They deserve their paychecks and their pensions. How dare you suggest otherwise. These guys are scraping dead kids off the road and then LIVING with what that experience is like and some blowhard like you has the audacity to diminish their service to grocery shopping and working out?! When you are asleep in your bed, Dave Smith, and every other firefighter on the job is getting out of bed several times a night, pulling on his boots, and getting into the rig to go help someone who is scared. What a moron you are to write any of that nonsense. Who are you anyway?

    I'm assuming when you refer to "glass man" that you are talking about Rick? I know Rick and his family. I used to make sandwiches at the Neighbor Saver when I was in high school 20 years ago and Rick came in every day for lunch. What a nice, gentle man he is. He has had his business on that corner since 1973, why should he go anywhere? They are a wonderful local family.

    As far as Dave Smith goes, we are lucky to have someone who is a homeowner in Encinitas, and serves as a firefighter OUTSIDE of our city. He CAN and IS standing up to the city and the fire chief. None of our local firefighters can counter their own boss. Luckily we have Dave and he has the guts to speak up. This is my understanding of the safety problem that 4a poses:
    The state minimum width for a highway such as ours is 24 feet. 4a calls for a 20 foot wide road - so we will lose four feet. If a bus is ten feet wide and a firetruck is ten feet wide, you do the math and consider how much room is left over to maneuver a firetruck past a bus in an emergency situation. This slows down response time, obviously. It puts the public at risk. The fire chief of Encinitas has signed off on a variance to change the MINIMUM distance to 20 feet. This is the crux of the problem in terms of public safety, according to firefighters. Apparently, a variance of this sort is very rare and considered extremely risky. I do not care if the firefighter who informs me of this is from here, LA, Australia or the moon, I trust that he knows what he is talking about, since he is the one who has to negotiate a firetruck as part of his daily work routine. Who better to inform us, really?

    As far as Leucadia ever being a ghetto, I just don't see it. If anyone should move to LA it should be you. Then when you have some terrifying emergency and need to call 911, Dave Smith might be on that run to save your dumb ass and you can apologize for your behavior and thank him for his time and efforts on behalf of our little town.

    I know Dave from yoga. He is mellow. He's a super nice guy and has gone above and beyond in terms of community service for Encinitas. Show some respect.

    Roz Light

    ReplyDelete
  39. *Light,

    I've done no bashing and concur with your comments about firefighters.

    My problem with Mr. Smith is that he is trying to scare people into supporting the plan which doesn't include roundabouts because he doesn't care for them. He cites city-wide statistics to say response times currently suck and plan 4A will make it worse without any facts to support his argument. (I've heard him talk about how stupid drivers are when they hear a siren, so he seems to be leaning on his anecdotal evidence.)

    The reason the Chief signed off on the variance is that the likelihood that a bus will keep a fire truck from passing is very remote. If, by chance, there was a bus driver that wasn't able to pull to the far right of the road (or, more likely, a motor home), I'm fairly certain that the fire truck or ambulance driver will hop on the median for the several feet they need to.

    And I'm still not convinced that the NCTD wouldn't give up four feet of the RR right-of-way. Why would a public agency, as stewards of publicly owned property, be an impediment to such obvious improvements to our community?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Roz- you are married to a firefighter, you failed to mention that in your diatribe. So you have a financial interest in defending firefighters.
    Q- Do firefighter go grocery shopping while on duty??
    Q- Do firefighter workout while on duty??
    Answer-YES THEY DO!!!

    Roz-What happened to the money that was collected by the firefighters from Encinitas after 9-11?? The "Fill the Boot" campaign raised over $75,000. It was supposed to be sent to NYC firefighters, but they claim to have never received the CASH. Nor the hundreds of millions of other money collected on their behalf.
    When you answer that question I'll place more credence in your comments.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Roz- one other thing...Support 4A

    ReplyDelete
  42. Hey Light,
    Please excuse the poster who hates anyone who has or ever will get a pension. He has offered his bile on many occasions that have nothing to do with pensions. I do not know him or have I yogi'ed with him, I just assume he is an asshole. Please excuse him.

    I agree with the fact that Dave, the firefighter, is offering scare tactics to confuse the uninformed. (sometimes, not challenging). If he believes that Alternative 5 would be safer, with higher speeds and much more impact at intersections, is safer and more efficient than 4a, then he ignores all the facts and traffic studies and built out projects and intersections.
    Alternative 4a is better.

    ReplyDelete
  43. 753 (aka Mike Andreen):

    Please go back to El Camino Real, and let us improve our Coast Highway.

    Your anti-improvement stance is not helpful.

    Those of us that live here want to slow down traffic (and no, it won't work with a traffic cop) and make it safer to walk and bike along the highway so we can safely shop and go out to eat with our families.

    To everyone else:
    Support 4A

    ReplyDelete
  44. So Anonymous you still cannot say who you are? Obviously you know me... fess up!

    Yes, I am married to a firefighter, everyone who knows me knows that. I, unlike you, signed my name, so I am clearly not hiding anything here. It is precisely BECAUSE I am married to a firefighter that your disrespect toward firefighters raised my ire to the point where I spent my time writing in to the blog. How do you think I know so much about what they encounter? The wives and families of firefighters do a service to the community by absorbing the stress these guys experience on the job. Many of my friends are married to firefighters. We get a firsthand look at how hard they work. They are good men! They are good dads, good citizens.

    Yes they buy food to make their meals (duh), and also many also work out. They do lots of things while waiting to respond to emergencies. The public depends on them to have a level of physical fitness so that they can do their job, which is why every fire station has a gym. Their shift is 24 hours long. Would you have them not eat and not work out? Hey they also sleep. But to say that is all they do is beyond ignorant.

    My husband does not work for the City of Encinitas. I have no idea what you are talking about regarding Encinitas FD and 911 funds, but I'll bet you made that up anyway. I am not a spokeswoman for the Encinitas fire dept, so your questioning me about this is misguided. The only connections I have to the Encinitas fire department is knowing lots of guys on the job from having lived in this community my entire life. If I have to call 911, they are the local heroes that come help me.

    In your post you state, "Nor the hundreds of millions of other money collected on their behalf.
    When you answer that question I'll place more credence in your comments." What does "hundreds of millions of other money" mean?? Are you claiming that the Encinitas Fire Dept stole HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars? I thought you said they raised $75,000? Which is it? And as far as you placing "credence in my comments" --like I care! Now go out there in the world and be your best self...

    ReplyDelete
  45. There is a lot less traffic on 1o1 than just a year or two ago. There is no need to install roundabouts that will change the character of Leucadia forever.
    I have a notion that this design is being shoved down our throats by just a few people with influence, namely Diane Langager and an attorney she took a liking to....

    ReplyDelete
  46. To 4:39
    what color is the sky in your world

    ReplyDelete
  47. Hopefully the Council will vote on this tonight or we will have an uncivil war on our hands. Come on folks do we have to trash everyone to get our points across? If the answer is yes, then we will never get anything accomplished. I trust the fire chief and if he says it is safe then I am for 4A.

    ReplyDelete
  48. People who think there is something drastically wrong with Leucadia might ask themselves why they live here in the first place. If you want clean and new and retail-focused you are welcome to move to Carmel Valley - or almost anywhere else. If you think the 101 corridor is a ghetto you're just a plain old moron. Real problems need fixing, imagined ones don't. This project, in any form, is 100% unnecessary. It's the result of people with too much time on their hands. Some people find the urge to reshape things irresistible. They think coming in and making big changes is admirable work. It feeds their ego and gives them a job. It's much harder to admit that the you aren't needed, that it's fine as it is. This is inconceivable to some people. And finally, once you destroy something special like Leucadia, you will never get it back.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Pro Leucadia... pro 4A

    Anti BS... anti ghetto

    Will Rogers was right, common sense isn't so freakin' common after all.

    ReplyDelete
  50. january 13th 8:08 pm



    nice.

    ReplyDelete
  51. Roz Light-

    Get over yourself and you soapboxing.

    Fire fighters have it made and their pay and pensions have skyrocketed in the last 10 Years.

    They play that danger and scraping body parts crap all the time. Big deal. Almost anyone rather do that than sit at a desk in an office for the same pay.

    By far more construction works and many other types of professions are killed each year than fire fighters.

    90% of the calls are EMT and none accident related. No danger at all. They are acting as a first responder EMT.

    They workout, sleep, go shopping, watch tons of movies on HD Bigscreans in plush recliners and go running on every 24 hour shift.

    Don't BS me. I have at least 15 freinds that are fire fighters who tell me about their days. Most of the fire fighters I know. Look forward to going to the station to get some free time away from the family. And know Firefighter unions have greased the politicians into building them all knew ritz stations so its even nicer.

    They get to retire after 30 years some as young as 50 with full pay of their highest paying year. Most well over $100,000.00 a year.

    Face it- Their job is gravy and thats why their is a waiting list of 10,000 for every firefighting job.

    Plus they get to work 2 days a week 48 hours and get 8 hours of overtime each week. How many of us can get paid for watching movies, working out, and sleeping?

    2 days work (if you call it that. more like 12 hours work 36 hours leisure time) - 5 DAYS OFF Sounds pretty good to most people.

    Its not like they have a thankless job that is really dangerous like a cop. Now they deserve their pay and pension.

    Face it, the unions created a compensation and shift for fighterfighters that is way over market conditions. They should thank the tax payers everyday. You should too for benefiting from our tax dollars for your lucky husbands job.

    ReplyDelete
  52. i wasted enough time on you yesterday... live and let live dude, you clearly have it all figured out and are so full of hate and disrespect that it is just your way of life. Our conversation is over. I hope things work out for you so that you can be nicer to people! xo

    ReplyDelete
  53. I am glad you see the light.

    The truth will set you free.

    Peace and let live.

    Thanks for the hugs and kisses.

    Truth

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anon 7:28--

    You might want to get with your doc and talk about a stronger dose. Your words are dripping with anger for people that respond to our calls for help in an emergency. Maybe you are unhappy there aren't more emergencies?

    I'm not sure how you can get so worked up over the life of a fireman. Is all your anger about the pensions? Were they supposed to turn these benefits down?

    ReplyDelete
  55. 2:35-

    Why do you think I am angry? Jealous, Envious, Truthful.... maybe.
    Angry- No.

    I am just calling out the BS about the fire fighters are doing us all a favor. They get compensated more than the market would bear for that position and the public loses as a result.

    The City has no money for other needed projects. I all goes to pensions and Fire Department OT.

    They should be thanking us for their union protected overinflated pension.

    ReplyDelete
  56. 7:49--

    It may be jealousy and envy speaking, but it comes across to me as anger.

    This was a post about the streetscape plans for 101 in Leucadia. It turned into a debate about the salary and pensions of firefighters. Reasonable people can differ on whether firefighters are overpaid and have pensions that are insane. But these matters were negotiated and agreed to by elected officials. So why take it out on the guys on the line?

    And suggesting that firefighters are malingerers because they watch TV or go shopping while on the clock is pretty stupid. I'm not saying we owe them much more than the check they get, but to trash them the way you have is pretty whacky.

    So if we cut the pay and pension benefits of all firefighters 20%, how many more projects could we complete? I don't think many.

    ReplyDelete
  57. “And suggesting that firefighters are malingerers because they watch TV or go shopping while on the clock is pretty stupid. I'm not saying we owe them much more than the check they get, but to trash them the way you have is pretty whacky.”

    Malingerers? I don’t think I wrote that? I was responding to Lights comments…..she was going off about her godly fire fighter husband. It’s not likes he’s a cop or something. Now that a tough and thankless job. He’s a fire fighter and fire fighters have the best job around. Is that angry talk?

    “So if we cut the pay and pension benefits of all firefighters 20%, how many more projects could we complete? I don't think many. “

    AJ- You don’t? Geesh…. You sound ignorant. It’s not just firefighters who get the pensions. Maybe you should look at the City budget….. about 80% of general fund goes towards staff salary and benefits……about 40% of that goes towards pensions and health care other benefits…… that’s close to 32% of the budget….1/2 of that is 16% of the budget…… cut the pension and benefits ½ and you would then have 16% more of the City Budget for projects such as the streetscape, Hall Property or other projects. We currently only spend about 7% of the budget on projects. Going from 7% to 23% of the budget for projects would be huge.

    HERES A HINT AJ-WE COULD AFFORD ALL KINDS OF PROJECTS FOR OUR COMMUNITIES. Why don’t you think cutting pay and pensions would help complete more projects?

    ReplyDelete
  58. Cutting pensions 20% would give us about 6 to 8% more for community projects. That is HUGE!

    I say cut them 50% to make up for the ridiculous increases made in 2004-2005 time frame.

    Wake up AJ. You've been asleep in your life for too long.

    ReplyDelete
  59. I agree with AJ. the council, county sup's, and our state reps are responsible, not the staff (for as long as they play fair).

    I also worry that it will turn people off to the issue to frequently interject this larger and, albeit related, issue of pensions.

    ReplyDelete
  60. KC-

    That is soooo fricken weak!

    "not the staff (for as long as they play fair).

    I also worry that it will turn people off to the issue to frequently interject this larger and, albeit related, issue of pensions."

    The staff's unions with the staff representatives were the ones who gave contributions to Council to get the outrageous pensions. Remember all the fire departments contributions to Stock and Houlihan's campaigns.

    KC- I am turned off that it has even gotten to this level.

    Check to the fire fighters up in Oceanside. They go to council meetings in groups wearing red shirts to so their Council they better stay in line.

    Check out the problems in Escondido... other Cities will soon follow.

    Check out the huge increase in CalPERS that our City will be making in the near future because our City Employees greased the politicians into a 40% increase in pensions and a 14% hire pay over 3 years when the City Budgets are falling apart.

    You two sound like the typical politician. You have your head up your ass and can even see the truth.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Lastly KC and AJ-

    This is the biggest issue facing our City. If you cared about our City's future you would care about the pension/public theft. Issue. Of course its not the employees responsibly. Its the Councils... just because I bring up the facts doesn't mean I'm blaming the employees. Fire Council.

    ReplyDelete
  62. I am sick of the interjection of pensions into every topic. It is important, but to ignore any topic and rant on pensions is a turn off.
    Please stop your one trick pony show.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Stick your head back where its warm and ignore reality. Thats the answer.

    PENSIONS ARE THE PROBLEM.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anon Pension Troll--

    Excuse me for not having recognized who you really were. The blog post, titled "Streetscape plans 4A vs 5", was rolling along talking about that until the great Fear Mongerer, Fireman Dave, chimed in with some more of his bullshit in an effort to rally support to the cause of killing roundabouts and one lane northbound on 101.

    So instead of talking about 101, you join the conversation and start taking potshots at the messenger, maligning all firefighters. You do so with several stupid comments suggesting that when they're not responding to emergencies, firefighters are malingerers (my word not yours, but it accurately defines what you were saying).

    Not comfortable with letting your resentful crap go unchallenged, the wife of a firefighter comes on here to defend their way of life and the good work they do.

    So you come back with more crap about firefighters and their families, throwing in some shots about their salaries and pensions.

    Since I am happy to have a solid force of firefighters ready to respond to emergencies and respect what they do, I suggest you're being a bit harsh, and that the FIRE DEPARTMENT pensions are really not the biggest part of the budget problems the city might have as relates to pensions.

    So then I get called ignorant. (Whatever, I've been called worse.) But you might think about trying to make your argument about the city's pension problems without being so inflammatory. Maybe think about using a handle that is something more creative than Anonymous, that identifies you on each of your posts.

    I know JP and KC are looking for guest bloggers and I would appreciate you distilling the problems of the pension system down to something even an ignorant hack like me could understand. You might even consider proposing some solutions to the problem.

    ReplyDelete
  65. AJ- I was not the Anon who posted the first comments about the firemen. I just joined the conversation after Roz Light got on the soapbox. You made an incorrect assumption. Remember what Assume stands for.

    Here is the simple solution for you and the rest of the public. Pressure Council to reverse the 2004/2005 pension increases (it was a 40% increase). This will still provide a heathy pension for employees and will not bankrupt the City.

    ReplyDelete
  66. Pension Troll--

    Remember what Anonymous means.

    Thanks for the simple solution. Not a bad idea. Is it easy to do what you suggest? How are you working to get it done? With endless anonymous posts? Come with a handle that lets us identify you and do something other than irritating people by posting the same rant comment on every blog entry, no matter the subject.

    Over and out.

    ReplyDelete
  67. A.J.- I am the one that responded to Fireman Dave telling us how envir he is with his work schedule. His work schedule is designed to max his overtime and therefore his pension. Whether he set it up or his bosses(union), the point is that many understand the tax payer is being ripped off.

    Roz then chimed in defending firefighters, that's fine. What she didn't tell you was that she is married to a firefighter,a clear conflict of interest.

    I understand that firefighters do a dangerous job, a job they do of their on accord. No one puts a gun to their heads and tells them to enter a burning building. They are paid to do the job. What I pointed out is, I know of no other profession that allows workers to go grocery shopping while on the job. Roz feels this is fine, I think it is crazy. They could just as easily shop when not at work as I and most others do.

    I am frequently at San Diego parks and lakes and see SD firefighters exercising miles from their trucks, yet each with a radio. Why?? Do you get paid to work out?? I don't. And why does each firefighter need their own radio?? They could easily stay as a group and use one radio and save the taxpayer plenty of money.

    Firefighters should be paid minimum wage while not responding to emergencies and $50 hour for each emergency response. Regardless of how long they are on duty for that given response.

    AS to the hundreds of millions of dollars raised for the NYC firefighters after 911, money raised across the nation. I stand by my comment, where did the money go?? The NYC firefighters claim they never received any funds. Someone is lying.

    So I will end this but not before asking; What is 'Chief's disease'?? And why does it always cost the taxpayer money. Google it and know it's not limited to the CHiPpies. It was born with firefighters yet perfected by CHiPpies.

    Finally, read FireLover by Joseph Wambaugh. It spills the beans about firefighters and some of their dirty secrets.(shhhhhh) the public isn't supposed to know......

    Now can we get back to 4A vs 5, oh yeah 9 of 10 fire departments endorse the safety of 4A.

    ReplyDelete
  68. maybe some of you need to go do some ride alongs with firefighters. anyone can do it. then you will see why they are paid for the work they do.

    I'm not talking about fighting fires. It's 80 to 90 percent medical aids. These guys are trained parmedics that can push drugs to help stabilize patients and get them to the hospital.
    who show's up at you're house when you have chest pain at 5am? Siezures? Car accidents? little Johnny isn't breathing. Grandma's asshole isn't well. and so on...

    get over it people. every city needs the FD and they are paid what they deserve.

    ReplyDelete
  69. You should have left it alone.


    Cops are paid what they deserve. Garbage Truck Drivers are paid what they deserve. You don't see huge waiting lists for people apply for either of those two job openings.

    Fire fighters are grossly over compensated. Especially when you include all the OT that they get every week, and the double time when they cruise off to fight some wildfire and hang out in a different City for a few weeks each year. I love the idea of lower stand by pay and higher emergency pay. Great idea.

    I love to go on fire fighter ride alongs. I just wish they'd let me hang out with them the rest of the time and watch movies, BBQ, work out, go shopping, and sleep in the brand new fire stations. Every time I go they act like they are cleaning equipment for 25 hours a day. You can only rub a hose for so long before you wear it out.

    Like I said, I have over 15 friends who are fire fighters. Many have switched from other well paying jobs to become full time fire fighters and they said it was by far the best decisions they ever made. They love going to the station. Plus since they get paid to sleep and get so much time off, many have other careers like own car washes, mortgage brokers, etc.... all my friends are clearing well over $200,000 a year with their FF job and their other gigs. The best part is, they never wasted their time in college. Haaa

    I agree that 90% of the calls are medical Emergency Medical Technician (EMT) calls. We don't need to send two full Engines and have 6 firefighters standing around shooting the shit, while someone help grandma find her Depends.

    A much more efficient way to handle those calls would be with an EMT service, non union, market wages, and about 50% the cost of the current fire department practices. Plus think of the huge waste of costs for most call outs, multiple Engines get deployed. In most other countries, they send much smaller EMT vehicles/ambulances to the medical emergencies. Other countries send smaller, more maneuverable vehicles that also transport the patient in lieu of a fleet of big Engines that arrive and assess the situation and provide EMT services until the ambulance arrives with EMTs who then transport the patient to the hospital or find their Depends for them.

    There are many things the Fire Department could do to save the City Money. The Fire Department consumes the most money in the whole City. Plus the council is hell bent on building them 2 new multi-million dollar stations when all the other projects sit with no funding.

    The biggest cost savings overall would be to cut all City Employee pensions back to the 2000 level which is still very giving to our employees. Secondly someone should look at how emergency services are provided in Europe, Asia and Australia with a goal on cutting costs while maintaining adequate emergency response and fire prevention.

    We have alot of fat in our budget and some of it needs to go.

    ReplyDelete
  70. 12:53
    "maybe some of you need to go do some ride alongs with firefighters. anyone can do it. then you will see why they are paid for the work they do."

    Not if it involves swinging by a fat bloggee's house to wake them up; wait for them to get ready for the ride along, then climb a blazing twin tower in full gear.

    ReplyDelete
  71. 10:19

    "I believe our city has grossly neglected and has miss managed the Leucadia 101 corridor and would love to turn back the clock and bring it back how it was 20 years ago"

    The only difference on the hwy between now and 20 years ago is the absence of the prostitutes.

    ReplyDelete
  72. and lack of trees.

    ReplyDelete

Thank you for posting on the Leucadia Blog.
Anonymous comments are allowed, after moderator review.
The moderator works at his leisure.