Thursday, August 04, 2011

Candidates Get Started

Leucadia's future is driven by what happens at city hall. The next council will have enormous decisions on how the city will deal with its liabilities (infrastructure maintenance, bond debt, and retiree debt). It will also decide if the city goes for more urbanization and whether or not it will address environmental issues superficially or with substance.

Alice Jacobson is widely rumored to still want a seat on the city council. Its just a rumor, but the really really awkward jumps she's been making across city commissions looks more like resume padding than genuine interest and commitment.

Last time Alice ran she trumpted her experience on planning boards/commission and charity work. But did she do a good job on the planning commission? How does the charity work relate to her public policy and public administration positions? If Alice runs she probably will have the city's insiders crowd and money to pump a Gaspar style election. Little grassroots campaign support, mostly people with monetary interest and personal friends. That's just the prediction.

Lisa Shaffer is definitely running. She has been active in a diverse set of public policy issues pertaining to the city. She's published her views and spoken in front of council, most recently asking the city stop spending money trying to keep the roads report secret. Lisa is well known among city watchers and comes across as genuine, because she speaks up and is open about her positions. She says she is strongly motivated to run by the lack of transparency and manipulative way the city council has been operating.

She's got a Phd in public policy and is involved in a sustainability program at UCSD. She's already cleared next summer for campaigning and reduced her work load in the following fall. She knows what she's getting into and is ready to make it happen.


Elizabeth Shaney also announced she is going to run. She has little record in terms of public policy or involvement in city government. 

She says she has more time now and wants to use that time to make changes in our community.

Her campaign facebook page reads:
It's time to refocus on what is important to those of us who live in Encinitas! We are a family based community, we are an environment loving community, we are a creative community. Let's not pass up opportunities that the Surfing Mary had to offer our community. Let's get going on the Hall project and think outside the box on how to do it cleanly and with partners. Let's be conscious about our development, to encourage growth and the character of our communities.

Let's hope this campaign is about public policy and not an ASB popularity contest.


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. I know Elizabeth Shany from our children's school. She would make a great Council Member for our City.

  3. You know what they say, " If you can't make it in the real world, stay in school, get all the degrees you can, and teach at a University."

    As we all know from attending college, professors have no idea what they are talking about or what works in the real world.

    Wow PHD- Personal Hefty Diploma.

  4. Cathy,

    Why? Dan Dalager was friendly, but that didn't make him good at governing. Jerome Stocks was widely respected among those people who don't actually know what happens at city hall. Same can be said about Gaspar.

    Can you explain what will make Elizabeth good other than you like her? What serious city issues did you talk about? What's her positions? Has she ever stood up for something?

  5. Hi Jesse,

    From my perspective, there is plenty of time to develop and publish positions on City issues. The elections are 15 months away. Many issues will arise before candidates get organized.

    If I were running, I wouldn't even announce my candidacy until a few months before the election, to minimize all the senseless banter.

    I like Elizabeth, find her very intelligent and balance on all issues, and I like her opening comments. What more do you want 15 months ahead of an election? Geeze.

    Why don't you get to know someone before you start the banter.

    You seem to be very hyper. Whats up? Go surf or something. Relax, enjoy, there is plenty of time to learn about the candidates.

    Take a DEEP Breath! Relax!

  6. I just found this blog today! I think Elizabeth would make a great council member!

  7. Funny that people are jumping in to endorse Elizabeth simply because they know her. Isn't that a little premature without knowing more about her positions.

    It's not too early to discuss the issues. We all know what they are. How about posting in detail on this blog about the pension problem, greenhouse soil contamination, ERGA, Fire Department misconduct, the expensive heating/cooling repair at the library, or any other issues brought up here.

    Elizabeth, choose one and tell us what you think.

  8. Cardiffian,

    You should also invite comments from the other candidates including Jerome Stocks. I am sure there will be others who jump in the race. But we really won't know who's in it until late next spring.

    If I was a candidate, I would enjoy the rest of my summer and not worry about any of this banter until late fall. Thats just me.

    Cardiffian, this election open up your wallet and support candidates instead of just whining about everything. Campaigns take money to run effectively. Not just stupid comments on an entertaining fun blogsite.

  9. Kathy:

    Are you aware that Jerome Stocks has served on the council since 2000? His positions are well known, he writes commentaries, and is often quoted in the newspapers. He's not coming from out of nowhere and announcing his candidacy very early as Elizabeth has chosen to do.

    I have no apologies to make about my participation in locals elections. I have walked neighbors and delivered flyers to hundreds of houses. I have donated money in each election. I have attended many council meetings, workshops, Planning Commission meetings, and CPPs. I am informed about local issues. How about you? Or better yet, how about Elizabeth?

    Calling people whiners is reminiscent of Dan Dalager. You know what happened to him. It takes character, ethics, honesty, and understanding of local issues to be a good candidate for council. If you are a good friend of Elizabeth, please tell her to come forward and speak to her constituency.

    I have no reason to support her or vote for her at this time. Vague generalizations won't suffice.

  10. I wish there were more folks who were involved and informed like Mr Cardiffian.
    I would vote for anyone before Alice. She was ineffective on the Arts Commission after Caroline Cope was kicked off by Jerome. Cope had massive art cred, Alice, none.
    Then the most highly qualified chair of the Enviornmental Commission, Liz Taylor was kicked off the commission by Jerome. Then Alice was appointed Chair by Jerome.
    Alice, not only put in her application after the deadline, but has No qualifications or ever show any interest in the subject. There were three other applicants that did get their applications in the perscibed time frame and two were very highly qualified.
    A vote for Alice is a vote for Jerome.
    I hate politics.

  11. Jack,

    Will cooties be a problem if the council is all female? Or is cooties not really such a big deal now?

  12. Jack,

    Is that your belief? Could there be some cognitive biases involved in that assessment? Most of the PhDs I know either work back and forth in private industry (or also work as clinicians) or have gone on to start companies. What would it take to change your view on that? Please list.


    We already know a lot about Jerome and some about Jacobson and Lisa.

    Strangely to me, you seem to be implying that Shaney has no positions (you know her right?), at least none that you will use to support your position. I’m hoping for more substance to back up endorsements, and make them more valuable than banter. Jessie’s questions are a respectful response to your endorsement.

    I personally won’t be backing anyone until I know her principles related to issues, work ethic, and level of moral courage.

    Unless a candidate is going to run a campaign backed by special interest money, waiting until a few months prior to the election to get things set up is a bad plan.

    The issues are out there now, they are not waiting for a year from now, indeed we are already pretty screwed by some of the problems. Any candidate waiting to address the elephants in the room is going to do very poorly this time around.

    The elephants’ room is getting pretty packed, so it shouldn’t be hard for all the candidates to get started, if the candidates are serious about issues.

    Finally, I look forward to the day that more of active citizens can increase our time surfing (or playing soccer on nice fields )and find it less necessary to pour time into keeping the council from risking our future.

    Encinitas House,

    Asking why is not impolite or inappropriate (it wasn’t too early to endorse, its not too early to ask why). We will be asking all of the endorsers the same question and we will be equally persistent with ALL the candidates.

  13. I want to know more about Jacobson's late application and how she was able to still apply for the environmental commission if it was late.

    What was the exemption?

    I would also be interested in seeing a copy of her application and resume compared to the others.

    If she's dirty let's expose her now.

    Looks like a records request in in order...

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  15. I can understand that many want my views on all the issues already. I can tell you that I am working on position statements to release. I am happy to give some preliminary ideas and I am looking for feedback as to what fellow members of the community are most concerned about.

    I do have a background of being involved. I have an extensive background of volunteer work involving both Make-a-Wish and Rady Children's Hospital. I also am very involved in our local public school. My husband and I have a local business and love being in this community.

    I am confident that our community can work together to find solutions to our issues. I try to live my life following Kant's categorical imperative and feel that this philosophy is a sound starting point.

    As you know many cities in our state as well as across the country have having financial issues. Our city need to take a close look at decisions that have been made in the past and evaluate if they work going forward in this economic climate. If they do not, we need to honestly face them and find solutions that will put us in a stronger position for the future.

    I am very concerned about the environment. I do feel that we need to make sure we clean up the Hall property properly and safely. Our community needs the property developed and we need to do it right for the sake of those who use it, live near it and will work at it.

    I am open to input and feedback on issues concerning our community. Please feel free to contact me.

  16. Alice Jacobson was the rudest person I ever met when she was on the planning commission. She talked down to people and doesn't deserve to be on any commission much less city council.

  17. Steve: The city website has, or had and should have, the applications for the Enviornmental Commission. No one could look at these and determine that Alice was anything other than the very least qualified applicant. And did not make the deadline for submission.
    But Jerome thought her appointment was good for him. It was not, apparently, a concern that this was not in the best interest of the commission or the city.
    The fix is in.

  18. Candidate Shaney, you get some points in my book for actually communicating with the public.

    I don't expect you to have positions on every issue. You must have some good ideas about the big issues since you have been involved. Certainly people endorsing you must have an idea about some of your positions.

    Every candidate is going to say the hall park needs to be done safely and the city needs to budget responsibly.

    Can you be somewhat specific about anything at this point? If not, why have you decided to run if it is not about the issues?

  19. Elizabeth,

    Wow, I've been very influenced by Kant! I look forward to seeing you in action.

  20. I would love to know what exactly it is about Kant's CI that Shany and KC like? I am particularly interested in Shany's response, since I don't think you are running Kevin? If you are, I would love to hear your response as well. Since Kant speaks of many things regarding Humanity, what particularly is it you find important in his philosophy, and how would you incorporate his philosophy it into your own political life as a councilperson? Thank you. I haven't heard Kant's name in the political world in many years. This would definitely sway my vote.

  21. Jack: And all this time I thought that Ph.D. was a term for piled higher and deeper:) As a psychologist I have to have a Ph.D. to practice. Having said that, I do know a lot of Ph.D's that may be very intelligent (IQ wise) but have no common sense. So thanks for the new term. My friends will enjoy it. The best I ever heard was a man that had on his business card, HSG, after his name. No one had heard that title, but since he was so respected no one asked. Turns out it meant High School Graduate. Degrees certainly do not make a person qualified for Council, but they do mean someone has been persistent enough to get one. That says something in my book, if their persistence works for the citizens of this community and has the community's best interest( not their own) at heart I will be interested in what all candidates have to say. BTW, the Hall Property is now called the Encinitas Community Park. The name was given to it by the current Council, even though 175 citizens cam up with different names. I was Chair of that particular committee on the Parks and Rec. Commission. 3 of us on the Commission spent a lot of time asking citizens for what they would like to see the park named. However, all 5 council members disagreed with the citizens and named it themselves. So much for a democratic system. And yet, we still keep electing them. Go figure.

  22. I'd sure like to know how the candidates feel about the attempted cover up of the fire department mismanagement.

    I would get my jollies if Dr. Lorri would say why she won't answer a simple question about the cover up.

    C'mon doc. You were spouting off. Fess up.

  23. Welcome back Dr. Lorri,

    Why don't you try going anon, so you don't get your feelings hurt.

    I like your comments and agree with the senseless of commissions with the current council.

    The Hall Property plan is the furthest thing from an Encinitas Community Park. So let see what name the Citizens come up with for it that stick. Just like the process used to name the Cardiff Kook. I guarantee you it will not be the "Encinitas Community Park." My bet it will be called North County Sports Complex. Or Encinitas Taxpayers Nightmare Park.

  24. Starman-Because there was no cover up. Period. Steve Meiche stated that the LAFD gives out all sorts of information that we don't. I filed an FOI with them and the stuff they sent back made our City look like we give more than they do and then some. So please, lighten up about the Encinitas Fire Dept. unless you have some new information that you would like to share. If not, let's move on. Our City has many cover-ups. Why don't you take on some of the real ones. Don't believe everything you read on this blog. Even the UT wouldn't touch the so called "cover up." Kevin and Steve have not posted exactly what the cover up was or if they did I missed it. What was it again? How can I comment on something that doesn't exist? Tell me what you think was covered up and then file a FOI to find out yourself instead of repeatedly asking me. In fact, why don't you ask Kevin or Steve to tell us exactly what was covered up. I don't know. Is there a way I can convince you of that, or do you just like to harass me? If it is the latter, be my guest.

  25. Cathy: I don't ever use an anonymous name because I believe if I post something it should be with my name on it. I know it would be easier, but people who really know me know I don't take the easy way out. Simple as that. If I get my feelings hurt, I get over it unless someone attempts to discredit me. Then I will fight. Some people also know that about me. But thanks for the suggestion. As far as the park, people were asked through the City's website, as well as other ways. 175 good citizens did submit some pretty good names. however, the Council picked there own name. Seems like that's how it goes these days. Look at the Environmental Committee and it ind of says it all. Taylor was the best person they had, and because Jacobs wanted on that Commission, they fired Taylor. And on and on it goes. I go up for reappointment next year for Parks and Rec. and I cannot help but think I will be the next to go. Heck, maybe I will run for Council. At least I know what is going on in the City. I also know Kant if that helps.

  26. Kant's CI would seem to dictate that it's immoral for city workers to receive pensions so exorbitant that they put city services and the well-being of the community at risk.

    Am I reading that right?

  27. When Alice was on the Planning Commission, she made it very difficult and expensive for small businesses to open in Encinitas, but ever so easy for mega shopping centers and congested condos. She and the Omsted gang also wanted the Library on Quail Gardens Drive to break ground for a new commercial corridor through Encinitas. That failed. For those reasons I would recomend not voting for her. Also, in her last bid for council, her slick flyer showed her at charities, with young group organizations, and with those at the senior center. In the several pics, she's wearing the same clothes. I'm not with CSI, but I'll bet she had a friend accompany her on a photo spree one afternoon, specifically to make a flyer.
    As far as voting for new blood onto the council, there are just too many local issues to learn for such candidates in order to make good and informed decisions, no matter how good of a person they are. Especially when they've not acquainted with involving themselves with council meetings.

  28. I am glad to see someone that can most likely relate to my own trials and tribulations run. Well done Elizabeth.

    I believe that with your dedication and determination to bring more culture, art, business and money into Encinitas, we will not have to worry as much about our city turning into a sterile comparable to Orange County.

    And I look at all of the "experience" the regulars bring back to the table, and frankly, I am disgusted with what they have done to our city. We need someone that is running out of the desire to bring positive change with the ability to do it. Elizabeth, keep it up. You have my vote.

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  30. More questions for the way early campaign drummers,

    Which trials and tribulations need to be addressed by the council?

    How is the money going to brought into Encinitas? Different than how they did it in Orange county?

    Which issues are you disgusted by and how will your candidate change that?

    Which things in our town need to be turned around and positive change affected? Traffic? Over development and crowding? Lack of jobs? Mismanagement of the city? Global warming?

  31. WC-I think that should be the first question asked as all candidate forums question for all candidates. What did Kant really say about people taking large pensions, and are they immoral if they do? I have a feeling you already know the answer to the Kant question you asked, but I love the idea of positing to all candidates: "Which philosopher do you most adhere to and why? If you don't ask it, I will at the Cardiff Candidates Forum.

  32. Here is the simple answer. Jerome Sold out Encinitas in 2005 and deserves to go.

    Anyone else will be a welcome delight.

  33. I want to know if the candidates are for banning personally owned automobiles.

  34. I love you Dr. Lorri,

    Only you could pretend to forget that the city refused to fess up and release the documents that show misconduct happened. Check out June 17.

    ...purposeful manipulations of the MDC units created hazardous situations and dangerously long response times... endangering the safety and lives or our citizens.

    "...if my 65-year-old mother had cardiac arrest outside Station [REDACTED]-anywhere from the 6th to the 8th, she would not have survived, and that to me is an egregious lack of duty... we are here for the citizens, and we grievously failed them.

    No one else had the brass to get the city to stop covering up. It took Steve Meiche to get the truth out.

    I am not so smart and I am confused about the LA fire fighter cover up. Which misconduct is the LA fire department covering up? Did you read about it in the LA Times or the Union-Tribune. If you didn't read about it in the paper it must not have happened.

  35. Starman, You confuse me. You sound like that wacko LA fire fighter who loves to wear the red shirts.

    Can you clearly explain the big coverup from the Encinitas fire fighters. I think I am pretty smart and I don't get it.

    1. Were they drunk on the job?

    2. Did they sleep through a fire?

    3. did they not respond to a call?

    4. Are they stealing money (besides the whole pension issue)?

    5. What are they doing wrong besides maybe some paper errors?

    They are allowed to shop, sleep, watch movies, BS, hang out at the beach, BBQ, and paint their toenails on the job. They are given massive flexibility in their job.

    Can you please be specific?

  36. Oh Starman: I love you too. The info I received from the LAFD came directly from them, when I asked for it with a Freedom of Information request. I don't believe that I said the LAFD covered anything up. All I said was that what they sent me was much less information than what the City of Encinitas gave Steve Meiche and Kevin Cummins. I got it because Steve was bragging about how much more information the LAFD gives out than we do. I did not find that to be the case.I guess I am just so stupid I cannot figure out a cover-up when I read or see one. Perhaps that is the case with the Encinitas Fire Dept? Maybe it is a plain as day and I just really don't see it. I truly wish Steve or Kevin would post what the cover-up was so that we could put this to rest. Since both Steve, Kevin and you seem to think there is, perhaps you can educate me as to what it was? Then I can be a more informed citizen. It's always nice to chat with you online. Perhaps one day you will post your real name. It sounds like you must be a firefighter from your last post, as you mentioned that somehow "we" failed them. Maybe that is why you don't want to post your name. If this is the case, why don't you take your concerns to the City Council. They are the ones who hire and fire the Fire Chief. I am sure they would want to know about a cover-up of the magnitude you seem to think there is.In fact, now that I think about it, I wonder why Kevin or Steve have not already addressed the Council on the this huge cover-up? They have both spoken many times in front of the Council, so why have they not come forward on this one? I look forward to hearing what they have to say. Then I will apologize for my apparent stupidity on this issue.

  37. NoTaxLady
    Alice Jacobsen has not had the time to master the nuanced visual disdain for the "Little People" (ie: Speakers addressing the Council) that Jerome has perfected. IF she is elected, watch the transformation.

  38. Maggie is struggling with her cancer. I spoke to her the other day and she stated that some on the Council cannot wait for her to leave so they can appoint who they want. No special elections in this City, just the Council appointing one of their own. Could it possibly be Alice? She absolutely hates Cardiffians. That came straight from her mouth. She probably hates Leucadians as well, as we all know both Leucadia and Cardiff are the big troublemakers from Council's perspective. Does anyone know where in the General Plan it says that if someone has to leave the Council, for any reason before their term is up, that the other 4 members get to pick whoever they want?

  39. Forget the names. Just remember to vote for skinny, unhappy people. The fat and lazy are wasting all our money. In fact, NO FAT AND LAZY PEOPLE is all that campaign signs should say. I think I'll start posting them in the right of way right now!

  40. Cathy,

    1. Were they drunk on the job?
    Would the city release that information it that were happening?

    2. Did they sleep through a fire?
    That happened many years ago.

    3. Did they not respond to a call?
    Yes. The dispatch system was manipulated to avoid going out on calls.

    4. Are they stealing money (besides the whole pension issue)?
    No, but some are taking the job of someone else who would manage the department professionally without putting the public at risk because their staff isn't held to completing their routine equipment checks.

    5. What are they doing wrong besides maybe some paper errors?
    Looks to me like the things you call errors are a sign of serious cover up or a culture of unprofessionalism. The incident reports are designed to learn about past mistakes and how to avoid future problems. A lifeguard almost died. That is not some silly paper error.

  41. What was a lifeguard doing in a diving exerise. I still don't understand the huge coverup?

    The city is about to go broke from all the massive pension obligations. I don't believe failing to properly fill out an incident report is going to get much traction as a high priority. Sorry Redshirt.

  42. Cathy: The reason you don't understand the cover-up is that there isn't one. I asked for the the same files the Meiche did in Encinitas for the LAFD. It was 15 pages long full of infractions and violations of policy, and had a lot more serious charges than were just mentioned. No names were mentioned and there was not much else. At one time Meiche stated the the LAFD was good at giving out all the information, but when I asked again they reported that this was all they legally had to give me. Go figure. The Encinitas Fire Dept. -bad, the L.A. Fire Dept-good. Right Steve?

  43. Lets get back to serious matters like how to repeal the unimaginable 35% pension increase to all City Employees in 2005. This should be done at the next council meeting.

    Our much needed tax money is being given away to a the City workers. Its not right.

    Jerome Stocks City pay should be withheld until the repeal of the 35% increase. Return the pensions to 2% at 60 IMMEDIATELY! Its that simple.

  44. Cathy-Unfortunately it would be against the law to take away current pensions. However, Kristin ran on a ticket of using 401K's for the City's pension program. That is what most of private industry uses. That might be something to explore, although I haven't heard her say much about it since she was elected. Perhaps they are talking about it behind closed doors. Please remember that it was not just Jerome who passed this huge pension increase alone. It had to be agreed upon by the whole Council. I don't believe Teresa Barth was on the Council then, and Kristin was not. The rest were. However, it appears that only Jerome will be running again unless he decides to go for higher office. Maggie will not be able to run due to health issues, and Jim has said he isn't going to. However Jim changed his mind last election so who knows? I don't recall you posting on the blog before, so if you have, please excuse me. However, you make some excellent points, so it is nice to have a new take on things.

  45. Dr. Lorri,

    As for this new stuff, how can you claim to have forgotten that the city would not give ANY information to the public on these incidents? Zero. Did you ask the Chief why the city changed its minds and released documents that generally confirmed what Steve had written.

    Steve has addressed this issue very publicly, you know this. The council is aware of the issue.

    As for what LA gave out, if you were not asking about as specific incident, what exactly did you request? Did they refuse to release documents on something you know happened, like here in Encinitas?

    I've seen your past inquiries and you have a long history for asking people for the wrong thing. As an example, you strongly implied that Calaware backed your position that the documents Steve asked for could not be released. When I read the email exchange between you and calaware it was obvious you asked the wrong question. You asked the question so that you would get the answer you wanted. Indeed, Calaware actively backed up Steve (explain that), And they were laying the groundwork just like they did in my lawsuit to get the documents Steve was asking for. In the context of my successful case, that is probably the only reason the city made an about face and released the documents. You were wrong about the documents and wrong about what had happened regarding the incidents. How and why did that happen?

    Will you please summarize what happened in the incidents and explain what you think about these incidents. Is the status quo OK or does there need to be some management improvements?

    Not releasing information on incidents that put people at risk=cover up by my definition. WHat is that to you Dr. Lorri?


    The FD incidents were not benign. The city's report says lives were put at risk. That is probably why the city had tried to cover it up by refusing to release related documents, refusing to talk about it and sending out verbal attacks and threats to people pressing the issue. I had made the suggest to many bloggers and will do the same for you. Would you like to read the whole set of documents and report back with a summary and your view to this blog? If so, because of Steve and Calaware, you can now get the documents at city hall (ask to get the doc's provided to Steve Meiche), or I can get you a set to review. These documents are now publicly available. You can also ask your city government to post them on their website.

    I would wager that the LG incident is related to inadequate funding. It is related to the city's finances. Not learning from their mistakes also puts the city at risk for lawsuits when it happens again. Also related to finances.

    K (trying to catch up)

  46. Kevin-I asked the LAFD exactly the same thing that Steve asked for from the City. In fact it was the very same wording so there would be no mistake. They sent an Exel spread sheet( about (15 pages) with the date of the particular incident, what the incident was, and what charges, if any, were filed against the firefighters? They did not give me names, nor anything else. As for Calaware, you will have to refresh my memory a a bit more on that one, as I really don't remember and you could be right. Although I will say that I don't word questions to get the answers I want. This is, and has never been about Me.I don't get my name in the newspapers if I can help it, unlike you and Steve who seem to thrive on it. I still remember the Turko files dog poop incident. And I still wonder how is it possible to have that much time on ones hands with a full time job, kids to raise etc. While you may think what you want about me, the fact is I have been active in this community for 25 plus years. I have attempted to get Sabine out of here, only to meet with no efforts by anyone who claims to want him out. Should I file a lawsuit? Unfortunately, I have neither the time or money to do that. Just in case you forgot, I did give $100.00 to you to file the suit for the roads. And, why have you nor Steve ever put up on the blog the stuff that was "covered up". Yes, perhaps I know more than you because I learned from MLK and others that keep your friends close and your enemies closer. But Cathy has an excellent point. Why don't we focus on what we can do in the future. We will possibly have 3 open seats on the Council. Let's go forward. Muir can retire anytime he wants to, so why go after him. Let's go after the real culprits-the Council and Sabine? Would you at least agree to that?

  47. Nice last points Dr. Lorri. Lets focus on the 3 seats and getting rid of the rotten trash.

  48. Dr. Lorri,

    I’ve suggested several times that you review your notes and emails. Please do. I’d rather you correct it yourself than me do that. Let me know which way you want to go.

    Did the LAFD deflect your questions? Did LA council members attack you rather than addressing the questions about the incidents? Did their city clerk send a letter denying access to the records? These three things happened in Encinitas LONG before Calaware helped Steve get the records. Please look into this before continuing to post misleading statements.

    I’m not sure how you deny knowing about the first and last of these off hand. You might not know that Steve DID send emails to the council (earlier you implied that he had not addressed the council).

    Let’s be very clear. Did LA give you what you asked for or not? What are they withholding THAT YOU ASKED FOR? Nothing, then they are doing far better than Encinitas did.

    I’m not going after anyone. You’ve misread me and others many times. I align with issues not circles of mutual political backscratchers. I’ll work with Jerome and I’ll call out Teresa. Democracy can’t be about ideas and analysis if we fall into making it a team sport about who holds the power. I don’t care who is in office if they are taking care of the issues. can you imply that the fire Department management has been my focus (or couldn’t you tell by ERGA, Budgets, Pensions, Open Government, Parks, Finance, Art, Transportation, Sand, flooding, engineering bs, soils…)

    On the flip side, why have you put so much energy into getting people to avoid having the fire department issue addressed?

    Regarding the entire packet online:
    I’ll figure out how to get the whole document packet up online if you first summarize in your own words what people will find in the packet (few people are going to read it all).

    You might have forgotten that we've already posted excerpts that clearly demonstrate that something happened that should not be repeated. I’ve spoken to EFD guys. I’m pretty sure they weren’t involved and they think these things should never have happened. “I’m glad noone got hurt" is what one FD told me. A LOT of CREDIT should go toward the FD guys who spoke up and did the right thing.

    Some did and they should be among the candidates for advancement through the ranks. I want to know if they were recognized for their professionalism and ethics. Is this something you even asked your friends in the FD management?

    I'm guessing not nor will say so. You’ve not addressed many questions including the one that saddens me the most. Were you just trying to scare Steve or does your friendship with the chief make you worried that his family is genuinely in danger for asking too many questions?

  49. K.C. I believe that you fight the good fight but I can not say that for Steve. This seems like a personal grudge between Steve and the Chief. It is unfair for you to ask us to post a summary of the report on this blog. It is one thing to ask us to go and get a copy to read for ourself but to ask us to make unqualified retorts on a public forum is irresponsible. I can only speak for myself but in no way am I qualiied to do a summary. I just don't have all the facts. How about full disclosure from Steve. I have asked him to reveal who his retired IA investigator is. No response from Steve. Steve also said he would disclose those findings. Cricketts. Steve has even made inuendo about the Chiefs weight and his fitness for duty. I find that disgusting. The City hires people from all colors, shapes and sizes. While you may think he is overweight, he is very good at what he was hired to do. He is an administrator not an enginer. His cooperative alignment with other fire departments has saved taxpayer dollars and made the department better. This only my opinion but after Steve's theatrics at City Hall durring the last election, it is no wonder to me that he has recieved some alledged resistance from those he attacks in public. Civil protests should be civil not a circus.

  50. that coming from a Loser City Pension payment recipient.

    I hate to say it but LL views are bias.

    Steve moves last election were spot on.

    I believe Steve's claims that the fire department was negligent is Accurate.

    I just think there are bigger issues to address.

    Lets address the priorities. WTF KC?

  51. Kevin: I guess you have answered my question. You do NOT want to move on to current and future topics that could help our City. That says it all for me. I will answer no more questions from you, and will remove my name from the Encinitas Taxpayers Assoc, since your friend Steve is on the Board. You 2 do make an interesting team, I will say that. I will, however, as long as this blog lets me, continue posting things that I think are important to the citizens of Encinitas. If no one hears from me in the future it will be because of censorship on this blog, not my willingness under my own name.
    P.S. Cathy-Steve Meiche will also receive a nice pension from we citizens when he retires. He is a Los Angeles Firefighter in case you did not know that.

  52. Lorri,

    Again. Try posting Anon. its fun.

    of course I know Steve is on the dole along with KC for that matter.

  53. Loser Leucadian:

    innuendo - an indirect intimation about a person or thing, especially of an disparaging nature.

    I don't remember Steve doing this. Can you point me to where he did this? I think you are confusing a direct comment that was made on this blog by someone else. Anyone can look at the chief's photo or appearance in public and come to their own conclusions. The city may hire "people from all colors, shapes and sizes," but not the Fire Department. There are standards. If you line up all the firefighters in Encinitas, you won't see a lot of diversity. As perhaps it should be.

    It is not irresponsible or unfair to ask someone to read the report and do a summary if that someone is making charges of irresponsibility or incorrectness against Steve. As far as I know he has not been proven wrong on any of his allegations. KC has already posted the relevant pages on the blog. All you need to do is read and come to some common sense conclusions. It's not difficult if you have an open mind.

    You may not have liked the "theatrics" and "circus" during the last election, but I attended both rallies and wouldn't use your words to describe them that way. They were civilly conducted. The issues covered, including Dalager's misconduct, may have upset you, but we do have rights of free speech in this country.

    And finally if I were Steve I wouldn't divulge the names of people providing me inside information. It would guarantee that the sources would clam up. It's up to you to provide evidence that Steve is wrong. So far you or the city haven't done that.

  54. LL,

    I don't understand your point about the summary. If you've read the reports you should be able to summarize what you've taken from it. If it is incomprehensible for Lorri,it is awkward for her to be speaking strongly to the issue.

    Lorri or you can highlight what ever you guys think is pertinent, especially if you can find evidence that Steve or what I've posted is a poor representation of the overall gist of the report. So far nobody has disputed what is actually in the documents, but there has been a lot of attempts to dismiss the whole issue, and some extend discredit the issue because Steve is involved.

    I want someone else to give their summary.

    As for some of your comments I've also asked Steve for an update and so you know, this thing is not completed.

    Lorri and Cathy,
    please send submissions of more important things you want covered.

    I believe open government is a central necessity. Otherwise all other policy decisions are open to wide manipulation. If you've forgotten, the fire department story centers on the lack of transparency. It should not take a lawyer and a lawsuit to get access to public documents.

    I don't think we should censor or ignore that because the subject matter or the people involved make us uncomfortable (BTW. I have a long history of working with anyone when working on a policy issue).

    Do you think we should censor Steve or Muir when they send us an update on this issue?

  55. The car culture is the problem.

    If the fire chief is never going to be in the line of fire again then we should not be paying him danger pay anymore.

  56. KC-You ask what other issues.
    Fair enough.
    Glen Sabine-one year we paid him over $100,000 to represent the City. His billings used no paralegals and he charged full fee. I have repeatedly asked for help on this from others, to no avail.
    Term limits. I am quite willing to fight for this one, but not one person has volunteered to help with it. I can't do it alone.
    Jerome Stocks-He gets a lot of his own business from being on the City Council. Why doesn't he recuse himself more often than he does?
    Kristin Gaspar-Campaign promise to get 401K's implemented into the City. Has anyone seen anything about this since the election?
    The Ecke's relationship with the City and all that it entails. To long of a list to post.
    The Hall Property-where is the money and how does Jennifer fit into all of this. She used to be Glen's girlfriend. Don't know if she is now. Seems like a conflict of interest.
    Why does the Council get to choose who they want when Maggie can no longer serve? Perhaps you already know that she had to have a PEG tube put in. Where is it written that they get to choose and not the public?
    Cardiff and Leucadia in general. The "poor: relatives of New Encinitas and Olevenhein and DEMA. They seem to have a lot of power. Why?
    NCTD-What's going on with that?
    As for full disclosure, would you like to post what Chief Muir sent you about the lifeguard situation? He gave you every answer you (actually Steve) wanted. Why have you not mentioned that?
    I am sure citizens can come up with a lot more but for now I have to go to work. And, I don't get a pension when I retire, except for my own IRA which has gone down the tubes recently.

  57. KC,

    I appluad and appreciate your efforts for open government. I just wish this much energy when into addressing the huge pension give away and lack of money for any of the needed projects.

  58. Well I guess my summary would be biased and baseless, so what's the point? I may have different views and opinions but I do have an open mind and my eyes are wide open Cardiffian. I try to see all sides of an issue. I am engaged in this community. I watch and sometimes go to all the Council meetings. I am aware of what's happening in this town and most of all I CARE! I take great pride in my work ethic and stewardship of this community. I am a taxpayer with kids in our schools but I am just a leach to most who comment on this blog. Who has the open mind here? You can have free speech and be civil and you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Dividing the community will solve nothing. I chose loser leucadian as my handle because we all lose if we are divided between our own petty opinions and biases. Threats of lawsuits will not solve all our problems. We will all have to work together and respect other points of view for the common good and to get things done.

  59. I thought innuendo was an Italian suppository.

  60. I thought illegal was a sick bird.

  61. I sometimes go to all the Council meetings.


    Suing the City is the only way to get anything done in this City. Its the way Jerome Stocks has set up City Hall. Its ridiculous.

  62. With regard to the FD and the importance of this issue.

    It is a fact that numerous act of gross misconduct took place that risked the lives of citizens . It was not just one individual but many.

    It is a fact that the Chief refused to address the issues when first questioned by the ETA.

    It is a fact that the city refused to release related documents and continues to withhold documentation of investigations, disciplinary action and corrective measures as to how we can insure it won't happen again.

    This is a cover up.

    The finding are not final because the city continues to withhold information and it appears that it may take another lawsuit to disclose everything.

    After yet another request for the same documents initially requested, I just received an additional 650 pages of documents related to the most serious acts of misconduct. My first request netted 60 pages, mostly fill.

    These pages were withheld initially. Although I have not had an opportunity too vet through them all, it is obvious that they are still withholding important information. In particular, to the most serious of act and a particular individual.

    This is not over and, not a waste of time.

    This is an example of how the City operates, its overall management pattern and public records policy.

    I will not tolerate anyone who gets paid a lot of money and doesn't do their job. Especially ones who have the responsibility to protect the public and save lives.

    I will hold them accountable. Especially fireman.

    PS. Dr Lorri, If you need assistance with the LAFD files, I will be glad to assist you in interpretation so that you may find what you are looking for.

  63. Cathy,
    You’ve made a gross error. Only a few people in this city have put in the same magnitude of effort on pensions and long-term liabilities of this city as I have. On the other side of this the fire management things has used up an order of magnitude LESS effort on my part (and mostly related to open government aspects or just posting up stuff sent). I got a submission to post on your comment to go up in the next couple days.

    I wonder if you are just tossing out comments to stir the pot or can you explain how you came to that conclusion about the distribution of my efforts?

    I can argue that no issue is anywhere close to as important as the city’s long-term liability risk. Are implying no other issues should be spoken of until pensions are dealt with, or just this one particular issue?

    Allowing readers to weigh other points of view requires others to provide their view. I know that you have done so on some topics. If your or Lorri’s summary of what is in the report is based on what’s in the report it won’t be baseless.

  64. Lorri,
    You’ve waffled on running for council and you are again considering it (8/7 9:35). You’ve told me you would maintain political alliances rather than address sensitive issues affecting your allies. You’ve told me I’m naïve for WANTING government to act on the merits of issues rather than to protect personal political protection networks. Your explicitly admitted political network appears to still include Muir.

    Muir sent me a response only two days prior to your comment (work days). I had sent him the questions on July 16 and since three days ago it was all silence. I’ll read it today; I’ve got finance related documents and a roundabout link to review first.

    You’ve made me terribly confused. Lorri, do you want that response posted or do you want it dropped like a brick? Let me know.

    You have a focus on your admitted quest to remove Sabine to realize that others have been working on the general issue of poor contracting and crappy managed competition (neither managed or competitive). You’ve also missed some of the reaction to the open government court ruling related to the city attorney.

    BTW, I don’t think the UT has ever done an article on Sabine’s Encinitas contract and lack of competition for that contract position, so does that mean this is not something worth working on?

    Lorri, your history with Sabine is personal and it is highly ironic that you complained that people didn’t want to work with you. For years many were suspicious of your alliance with Muir, who is politically connected with the council majority, and the appearance of your motivation being a vendetta quest against Sabine. I try to work with everyone, even people others consider “the enemy”. So, indeed you and I made an "interesting team", as I was warned about working with you.

    I’m also willing to work with Steve on the ISSUES of pensions, open government, public safety and city administration. We don’t agree on everything, but to date I’ve seen evidence of mishandling of mistakes and a purposeful lack of transparency by the city on the things Steve has uncovered.

    Dr. Lorri, the city refused to release the reports AND without setting up for a lawsuit those docs were not coming out. So once again, what has LA refused to release (and does it really matter what LA does right?)

    As for your list of issues, those look like things that have been worked on and can be found in the LB archives. What exactly do you want done on those issues?

    I have to admit that many of those things are small potatoes compared to our coming retiree liability tsunami. So should we cover just pensions to the exclusion of all else (including managed competition), or should we also cover the side issues too? Got any good reasons why we shouldn't post stuff on the FD management?

    As for the term-limits thing,
    We posted on that too:

    And there is actually a list of folks willing to put time into working on that one. You wouldn’t know that. You refused to be part of that because you had a vendetta against Steve and I could not promise you that Steve would not be in the AUDIENCE to hear your pitch for a term-limits initiative. That was pretty extreme. You can’t come together as a community if you start by excluding people.

    Hey, you wanted Steve excluded and at the same time didn’t want to back up your claims against Steve with evidence you said you had.

  65. Kevin: I give up. You win. I will continue to post on the blog but I will leave the issues to you younger folks. It isn't worth it to me anymore. I truly wish you the best.

  66. Don't give up Lorri. Diverse perspectives are needed to promote and stimulate consensus.

    There is nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. Even if things are black and white, in today's world it is how an individual perceives it.

    Your comments are useful and appreciated.


  67. Steve-That is very kind of you. However, it really is time for me to bow out so the younger people can have a chance to get things done. I am still an idealist from the 60's and had the great fortune to march with MLK in Atlanta. The things he taught me were invaluable, but today's world is very different than the 60's and 70's and I have to accept that. Kevin, you, and all of the other activists have a better handle on the workings of things and sometimes it is best not to have too mane egos involved. When KC remarked that people warned him about me, I realized how divisive I have become. It was never my intention, but there is too much at stake for me to get in the way of committed people like you, Kevin, Andrew etc. I will still do what I can. Much of the information I have learned about City Hall comes from the profession that I am in. It does require total confidentiality, however, and therefore I cannot reveal who tells me what. So, sometimes when I have said things, I am vague because I have to be. Perhaps that has never entered anyone's mind, and it would probably not have entered mine, if I were not a psychologist. So, thank you for all that you do as well. I may not always agree, but you also have gotten things done and I will apologize to you publically because it is the right thing to do. I will also send you a private email with another apology and some other things you may want to know. Keep being you. And thank you for caring about our community. I have lived here almost 30 years and have come to love it, as I know you do. And in the end that is what it is about. Take care and warm regards to your wonderful wife and family.


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